Religious-extremist - With Love In Christ - Tumblr Blog

When the communist police came armed to the Ćelije monastery to arrest St. Justin while serving the Holy Liturgy, he answered them:

"Either shoot me here or get out"!

"If here in exile, in this accursed land of weeping, our holy God has given us so much beauty to enjoy, I wonder how much there will be in the place where God Himself dwells!"

Blessed Elder Ephraim of Arizona

I wish to make it clear that, as an Orthodox Christian, the Orthodox Church doesn't have the same doctrines about the Immaculate Conception or the Blessed Virgin's alleged status as co-redemptrix. The latter is a difference that came about due to issues with the Latin Vulgate translation that was never used by the Orthodox Church anyway since the Eastern Roman Empire that remained Orthodox had no need for Latin; they spoke Greek which is the language of the Septuagint (which also is the most accurate version of the Old Testament) and most of the New Testament.

I digress and I won't open that can of worms unless someone asks me to expound. lol. (I am raising my hands up, do not shoot me.)

Regardless, the original point of this post was to give something for Low Protestant denominations to consider when reading this verse. (I spent some time in such churches and often heard this verse repeated as a refutation against the veneration of the Mother of God.)

Anyway, since you liked the exploration of the languages in the original post, perhaps you will also appreciate learning a few more facts about biblical language, later translations and their implications, and how it affects the unity of Christendom today. I am making a new post and you can see it if you click the link below.

Issues with the KJV; Part II - Veneration of Mary and Saints

Mistranslation by the KJV, Luke 11:28

27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman called out from the crowd and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts which nursed you!”

King James Version

28 But Jesus said, “Yes, rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.”

Eastern Orthodox Version

28 But Jesus said, “Yes, and more than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it.”

The Greek word menounge (μενοῦνγε), translated above in the text of verse 28 as “yea, more than that,” but rendered inaccurately in the KJV as "yea, rather," is the same word which occurs in Phil. 3:8, where the KJV gives Yea, doubtless, and in Rom. 10:18, where the KJV gives Yes, verily.

The force of menounge is that it corrects the previous statement, not by negating it, but by amplifying it.

Philippians 3:8 “Yes, without a doubt, I consider all things as loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things. I consider them as dung, so that I may gain Christ.”

Romans 10:18 “But I say, did they not hear? Yes, most certainly: Their sound went out into all the earth, Their words to the ends of the world.”

Evangelicals and opponents of traditional Christianity often frame this statement of Christ as proof that His Mother was not holy or deserving recognition, that she was merely a vessel with little importance, and this perspective directly results from a mistranslation of Christ’s words.

Indeed, blessed is she who contained the Uncontainable: Christ our God.

Understand that Luke’s Gospel was originally written in Greek, so perhaps we ought to study the original language that the scriptures were written in to have a better understanding of Christ’s life-giving message.

Issues with the KJV; Part II - Veneration of Mary and Saints

Worship and Divine Service

In modern English, the term "worship" (like the term "prayer") has mainly come to mean "an act offered exclusively to God." However, the original and official meaning of this word used to be much broader - as was the case of the Greek word proskyneo (προσκυνέω), which is normally applied to God, but also to human beings.

The idea conveyed by proskyneo is that of "offering obeisance," "making a physical demonstration of veneration and respect," or "prostrating oneself." (To put it extremely casually, like a curtsy.) In contemporary Orthodox terminology, the equivalent of proskyneo is often "venerate."

In the EOB, proskyneo is translated as "to express adoration" while it is often translated in the KJV as "to worship."

On the other hand, the Greek word latreia is exclusively used in reference to God.

In the EOB, latreia (λατρεία) is translated as "offering divine service" while it is translated in the KJV also as "to worship."

The Problem

So there is this issue of the KJV as it is today - with its immeasurable influence upon modern theology, the English language, and the Sola Scriptura doctrine professed by Protestant Christianity (and therefore the world) - combining two different words, proskyneo and latreia, under one translation: "worship."

The point of dissension that now comes up is that when those of the Old Religions, which existed before the King James Version, venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary, Protestants often denounce the Old Religions' disposition towards the Blessed Theotokos because their theology relies either wholly or partly on the KJV and the KJV tells them that proskyneo and latreia are the same thing, when historically - as attested to us by the oldest translations of the Bible - veneration and worship have never been the same thing.

To argue that veneration and worship are the same thing is like saying that criticism and insults are the same thing, or complimenting and confessing undying love is the same thing. They are markedly different.

The Old Religions -- the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholics, and Church of the East -- don't offer latreia (worship) to the saints but they offer proskyneo (veneration).

As a last exhibit, I will show to you Matthew 4:10 and Luke 4:8 where Christ quoted the Ten Commandments and said "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (KJV) / "You shall express adoration to the Lord your God, and to Him only shall you offer divine service." (EOB)

For the sake of understanding, I will adapt the KJV to this:

"Thou shalt proskyneisis the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou latreusis."

That said, proskyneia or veneration for humans, saints, was never forbidden, but it is clear to all of us that latreia or worship is offered only to God.