Daes Dae'Mar Theory: What Has Been Proved So Far ?

Daes dae'Mar theory: What has been proved so far ?

So, in this post, i'll just add the proof I found that confirms or consolidate some parts of the theory. It won't be as long as the theory itself of course, so no need to worry about as there isn't much to explain just proof to provide.

SPECIFIC LORE SPOILER ABOUT THE WT AND MINOR BOOK SPOILER (we kind of know this already but some might have not picked up on it when Min foresaw it in S1)

Part 1 : Proving the content of Liuan off-screen talk and plan

I claimed that the person who helped Lan with Moiraine's powers was Siuan all along and not Verin like many seems to think is the most logical and probable explanation.

Well, it's true that Verin being trusted enough to know the truth about Moiraine being stilled that them staying with them for the last 6 months makes it hard to imagine anything else.

But,we were wrong, we got fooled by the writers. As we weren't supposed to realise that there were multiple plans unfolding DURING Daes dae'Mar but only after. A lot of us did not even know what to expect or suspect with the title. I for one did not question the ep until after I went on twitter and learned that the title suggested it.

We've been shown this already thanks to episode 8. They did not want us to see the betrayal coming nor did they want us to know that Bayle Domon knew Lanfear as Selene; Knowing this, It is safe to assume that everything that seems to be the obvious answer when it comes to these plans are debatable. They did hinted at the truth throughout the season though, we just did not pick up on them.

Simple instance of this, that must now seem to stick out like a sore thumb to everyone is that in E01, when Bayle Domon comes and talk to Mo :

When did this come into your possession? [DOMON] Couple of months back. [MOIRAINE] Where? [DOMON] Outside Cairhien. The old moon dial there shattered one night this spring. I know you have men following me. I want them gone, too. I don't take kindly to unwanted company. [MOIRAINE] Your enemies are your own. It seems there's something written on this. [DOMON] Aye. The whole dial was covered in a poem when they found it. Written in blood. Old Tongue. I have a copy, actually. […] Ah, serves me right, I suppose. [MOIRAINE] These men you say are following you, what do they look like? [DOMON] Only caught a glimpse from a distance, once, when we, uh, left the dock at Whitebridge. Two men in black cloaks on horseback. [MOIRAINE ] Did you see their faces? [DOMON] No. Their hoods covered them.

Moiraine's reaction after towards Bayle Domon was an indication, there's a mention of Cairhien which we know is where Rand is, most only realised that something was off with Selene or though that she would be Lanfear (for book readers) but how many made the connections thought that the fades, Bayle Domon going to Moiraine with crucial pieces of information followed by them but never attacked and them only attacking Moiraine once he's left and given her the poem was part of some plan before episode 8 ?

Now that this is established, let's provide the proof.

Remember when I asked that you take a mental or physical note of Lan mentioning the Tower Records ?

Well, this is the show telling us implicitly that he has been working with Siuan, and misleading us into thinking that surely what would explains his knowledge on these matters when he info dumps to Moiraine about the Forsaken was that he worked with Verin, a brown sister with whom he was living with for the last 6 months or so.

It is also a really good way of diverting our attention from the incoherence this assumption would cause, like the simple fact that Lan never learned that Verin knew about the Dragon Reborn before he got separated from Moiraine and that Verin couldn't have known about his and Siuan's plans that most of us thought was about Rand, the Dragon Reborn and not about Moiraine. How would she know (if she was in on it) about something unexpected even for Lan and plan an escape for it in advance?

This lead us to assume that after Lan told Siuan about Mo's stiling she decided to go to Cairhien mostly because of Rand, to meet him and then decided ALONE to finally start following the tower rules after meeting him. No matter that they had showed before that Moiraine and Siuan's dynamic regarding their mission did not rely on having a leader even though dominance naturally oozes out of her and in spite of her position in the Tower as Amyrlin seat.

Even book readers fell for it, outraged and worried that the show was turning Siuan into Elaida. ( still not a book reader, just I obviously constantly spoil myself anything related to Liuane ( Mo, Lan, Siuan) ) but it's normal, even for book readers.

As this little piece of information is a specific Aes Sedai/ White Tower part of the lore of The Wheel Of Time.

To instantly pick up on this you'd have to have memorised it or been obsessed with the Aes sedai's when you read the books and even then, you'd have to be looking for it to catch it. So, obviously, I went looking for it.

After digging into WoT WT laws, customs and systems. I can now assure that the show itself (apart from the writer saying that they planned "a sort of intervention" for Mo in the bonus) already confirmed my theory about Liuan having a plan for Moiraine.

Mo'an in the Sun Palace

[LAN] I have a question for you. And I hope someday you'll forgive me for asking it. ( a single question huh ?) After you were stilled by Ishamael, has there been a time… in all these months when you thought about ending it? [MOIRAINE] Killing myself?

According to what I've found, the WT library has a categorisation system in place that hierarchies information. Starting from "not sealed" all the way up to "Sealed to the flame".

When something is “Sealed to the Flame,” it means that by law, it can only be read by the Amyrlin Seat. “Sealed to the Hall” means that it can only be known to Sitters and “Sealed to the Ring” that it can only be known by Aes Sedai. If something is not sealed, it is open for even the newest novice to know (ACoS, Ch. 12).

Lan, thanks to his time spent with Verin only knew that being stilled was like the most brutal form of violation one could endure and that most women died because of it. So, rather vague and general knowledge. Yet, he later tells Moiraine:

[LAN] I read the Tower records. There have only been two women in history who were cut off who didn't. Most did it within the year.

It begs the question : Which level could Tower Records be at? Thanks to my research I learned that :

By Tower law, the official histories of the White Tower are unavailable to all but Aes Sedai (TWoRJTWoT, Ch. 9).

So, I digged a little more as it was too vague to prove anything and looked for something more specific, as I remembered that stilling was apparently something taboo in the Tower ( I read it somewhere on twitter and remembered) I directed my research toward a minimum level of "Sealed to the Hall", as Lan knew specific things about the age of legend and Forsaken but also most importantly he said himself (again a clue we missed):

[LAN] There's a story from the Age of Legends about the Foresaken's powers… a skill that's been lost for thousands of years… to tie off weaves and leave them in place.

I thought there's no way this kind of knowledge is available to any Aes Sedai and so it had to be a minimum of "Sealed to The Hall" to "Sealed to The Flame" and here's what i found :

(About the Keeper of the Chronicles) She has access to the Thirteenth Depository (CoT, Glossary). Included within the Thirteenth Depository are the lists of those who have been stilled and executed (ACoS, Prologue). The Thirteenth Depository, containing secret records of the history of the White Tower, is hidden by law. Even the fact that it exists, and the law that conceals it, are hidden (ACoS, Ch. 11).

So, obviously, if just stilling records are kept in the Thirtheenth Depository, Information about skills that the forsaken used and that most believed to be lost which are actually documented in the Tower Records, surely kept in the Thirtheenth Depository.

If not Siuan, it only could have been Leane as the only other people allowed in there are the Sitters of the Hall, and even then they have to be accompanied by the Keeper otherwise they won't be allowed to access it.

"These are the secret histories, containing information that, by law, on The Amyrlin Seat, the Keeper of Chronicles and the Sitters of the Hall and the librarians who keep the records have access to."

Now that this as been proven, apologise to my client people, thank you.

About me believing she did not need to go back to the Tower to know I just refered to this thing I stumble uppon while researching :

MINOR SPOILER AHEAD (we kind of know this already but some might have not picked up on it when Min prophecised it in S1)

Egwene thinks that Siuan "must have spent a good part of her years in the Tower burying herself in the secret histories," because she "seemed to have every detail at her fingertips" (TPoD, Ch. 16).

Proving that Siuan was the one that made Moiraine gaining her powers possible, also prove that Verin probably turned to the dark at some point, which I believe was when she left with Liandrin but also :

"Compulsion is a weave that forces to do as they're instructed (TSR, Ch. 46). During the War of the Shadow, it was a potent weapon. People were forced to serve the Shadow against their will. Others were converted to undercover agents, to betray the Light at the most damaging times (TWoRJTWoT, Ch. 4)."

Reference :

https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Tower_Law#Miscellaneous

https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Thirteenth_Depository

https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Keeper_of_the_Chronicles#As_Secretary

https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Compulsion

(Part 2 : Do I really need to prove Lanfear lol ?)

proof : S2E08

icons of Priyanka Bose in The Wheel of Time (s2) as Alanna Mosvani

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That's precisely because he's this type of character that I still don't like his character in the show.

The books being told through his perspective and everything converging toward him 99.99% of the time is why I might never read them. It's such a turn-off for me. I'm giving myself until the last season to see if i ever change my mind about this.

And yeah, even without reading the books, knowing that he'd have 3 girls loving him, I just knew that the explanation would have "he's the dragon reborn", "he's the hero of the story" 😩

I've been telling bookreader and bookcloaks that his character just wouldn't have worked on screen as well as any other one as the main because of the type of character that he is and because of when this adaptation is happening since I first engaged with the fandom. Glad a show first book reader is confirming what I thought about him.

Rand's the least appealing and interesting character to me, even with Josha being incredible at playing him and him not being the main angle of focus anymore.

Add to that the fact that Robert was a naturally plot driven writer and not a character driven one, and that it's overly apparent which makes this problematic as it means that it's imbalanced, also the books are ridiculously descriptive, each the size of an encyclopedia (except New Spring) and there's 14 of them plus I have ADHD.

I probably will never join book readers except for the New Spring ones, but who knows. Someday, maybe.

Two books in, I can’t help feeling like people who are upset that Rand isn’t getting enough screen time in the show just have some sort of wish fulfillment with book!Rand. He’s a totally fine “chosen one” character, but in typical chosen one fashion he’s trope-y enough to be one of the less interesting characters in the books so far imo. But you know, every girl is in love with him for some unclear reason, people give him respect when he’s quiet and then even more when he gets bossy, being petulant makes people like him *more,* and nothing he has to do actually takes that much effort or challenge (and his mistakes don’t ever backfire). There’s a certain type of person, and especially a certain type of young boy, for whom I feel like that would REALLY resonate.

the way people cannot take any negative thing happening in tv shows these days is genuinely frightening and incredibly tiring. sometimes characters die. sometimes bad things happen for the story to move along. unwillingness to deal with anything upsetting in the realm of FICTION (and by upsetting i don't even mean difficult themes but just basic storytelling stuff like a character dying) is how you get incredibly watered-down cookie cutter media that doesn't make you feel anything. "ooooh but escapism" you cannot avoid everything bad forever. and if a character death is something that will send you spiralling that is something with your mental health and not with the piece of media being made. from the bottom of my heart: grow up

Update :

"Siuaraine: Is Moiraine's the top ?" will be posted today. Not too long ( edit : got distracted so let's say tomorrow) after this post actually. It's sitting in the draft.

Next up :

WoT about: "Rand gets no hero moments"

WoT about: "The writers keep giving time to plots that aren't *bad*, but do nothing to actually serve the story."

WoT about : "Sure, but “pillow friends” didn’t really ever imply exclusive long-

Torashi ask :

WoT abouts are Non-reader to Bookcloaks/ Book Reader takes and answers to questions I might get or answers whether I got them on Tumblr, Twitter, or Reddit. So, essentially, they might be in the form of a discussion

WoT about : "Sure, but “pillow friends” didn’t really ever imply exclusive long-term relationships."

WoT about: "The writers keep giving time to plots that aren't *bad*, but do nothing to actually serve the story."