Asian Honorifics & BL - A Quick & Dirty Guide, With Examples

Asian Honorifics & BL - a quick & dirty guide, with examples

You ready for another one of my long broad brush linguistics in BL posts? (As always check the comments for people better than me correcting or adding content. Also I will be updating this post as long as Tumblr lets me fiddle with it.) 

Codicil: I’m a dilettante who loves the cultural side of linguistics, and loves to help people understand BL better via language. I attempt to explain things using very simplistic terms and an anthropological approach, I am aware that it’s a lot more complicated. But I’m doing my best. 

Codicil 2: This is meant to help BL watchers, not to guide tourists who in intend to travel to these countries. 

Honorifics in General - the concept

Honorifics = a title or word implying or expressing status, politeness, or respect.

Many Asian languages employ honorifics in a filial manner (distinguishing status along generational lines with regards to birth year, professional relationship, and parental state). Basically calling someone who is NOT an actual blood relation “older brother” (e.g. Korean hyung or oppa) or “younger sibling” (e.g. Thai nong), or auntie (see many Indian or Latin American cultures). These can also be a kind of endearment in romantic relationships. 

The closest most westerns can think of this is that the honorific is used as a way to delineate an intimate relationship/friendship across an age gap, but its implications are not always intimacy. (Except when they very much are, see oppa.) 

You may be familiar with a phrases like “we’re so close she’s like my sister” or “he’s like a brother to me.” 

However, because most westerners exist in relationships to peers only under the broad umbrella term friend, we will only use “like my sister” or “basically my brother” when someone is particularly dear to us but not sexually. 

In most Asian languages, honorifics are more codified. So there is a status conferred by age which dictates honorifics be used. They’re mandatory for communication. Intimacy levels between individuals CAN impact this, but are not the primary decider on what honorific is used under most circumstances. Position in society is.

So these terms are often defined (or even translated) with sibling language. See early Thai BLs translate phi as bro, but that’s not strictly correct. 

There are also often honorifics for larger age gaps (so more like auntie or uncle, delineating relationships like adult neighbors or a friend’s parents, or parents’ friends). 

And there are honorifics for people in authority positions (like doctors, teachers, bosses) who are usually older (but not always). These honorifics are employed in the arenas of education, hobby activities (like ceramic classes or martial arts) and the workplace.

For many, informality of older to younger will be characterized by use of casual (or rude) language and lack of honorifics (from the older person to the younger one). So the older character will have one mode of address and way of talking, while the younger character exists in a more formal register when they are speaking back to someone older. 

In other words, an older person can speak informally to a younger one, but not the reverse. (Yaja time excepted…) 

Complexity of Honorifics as Elements of Language 

Honorifics can function as titles:

Honorifics can be translated as/like titles. This is is the kind of thing we are most familiar with: Mister, Mrs, Mz, Miss, Master, Mistress, Sir, Madam, Ma’am are all, technically, honorifics. So are certain forms of address and royal titles, “The honorable” for example. Anything you might put in front of a name to add formality in English probubly qualifies as an honorific.  

Honorifics can function as pronouns:

Or modes of address. For example the title boss, in English can also be used to call or refer to someone directly. “Hi, boss!” or “my boss” or “the boss says.” Honorifics serve the same function. In this way they can become pronouns. You can, in Korean, just call someone “hyung” it acts as the you pronoun for direct address. And often they can also be used in the 3rd person. So my “hyung” did such and such. This is why hyung = brother in a lot of translations. Because English uses brother in much the same way, it can act as both a 2nd or 3rd person pronoun. (Rarely first, but that’s an issue with English, that our first person pronoun is so inflexible.) 

In Thai you can refer to a friend as phi (you pronoun in direct address, or use it as a she/he/they pronoun in third person) or you may refer to yourself as phi (using it as an I pronoun). In other words, phi can entirely replace a person’s name in all linguistic uses. 

He/She/They goes to the store = phi goes to the store (when talking about my older friend to someone else) 

I go to the store = phi go to the store (when talking to a younger person about my own actions), and 

you go to the store = phi go to the sore (when talking to an older friend about something they are going to do - direct address) 

Honorifics are also suffixes:

In Korean and Japanese honorifics are also attached to names in the form of suffixes. See the Japanese section. (Also sometimes prefixes, argh.) 

Honoring is also attached to particles:

In Thai, polite particles confer respect levels as well, which means they also contain within them certain aspects of status and honorifics. See the Thai section. 

The best way to understand honorifics in BL is by example. 

Ready? 

Korean - Honorific titles: Hyung, Noona, Oppa & Beyond  

I’m starting with Korean because it is the most spoken and understood by westerners these days. I can only address this as a layperson who watches too many Kdramas. 

Korean names in brief: 

In Korea names are said family name first (what we call surname or last name) and then given name second (what we would call first name). Usually the family name is single barreled or one syllable, but the given name is double barreled or two syllables. So: Chu Sang Woo = Chu (family name) Sang Woo (given name, always said together). This is why I will usually refer to BL characters by their first name as a combo, e.g. SangWoo. In formal address, however is would be Chu SangWoo-ssi. Usually the entire name is said (see comments). Even when JaeYoung is being rude he usually says “Chu SangWoo.” 

Korean honorifics you’ll hear:

Hyung | hyeong 형 - is said by a younger male when addressing an older male. I will use the term Hyung Romances for BLs that feature a younger seme pursing and older uke because…  

Noona | nuna 누나 - is said by a younger male when addressing an older female and is responsible for the accepted series category “Noona romances” which are dramas that feature a younger boy pursuing an older woman. 

Oppa 오빠 - is said by a younger female when addressing an older male. Also used by girlfriends addressing their boyfriends, or wanna-be boyfriends. Under a romantic context oppa is considered somewhat cringe/cheesy/cutsie.  

Unni | eonni 언니 - is said by a younger female when addressing an older female.  

Sunbae | seonbae 선배 - is said by a younger person to an older person (gender neutral) and is more formal. It can be used in the workplace and it mostly about seniority and less familial.

Hoobae | hubae 후배 - is said to/of a younger person, either across a generational gap, or within a workspace environment, again this one is about seniority and less familial.* 

Although an older person’s filial and social responsibility to a youngster is always in play. 

In Kpop you’ll hear sunbae used a lot by younger (say 4th gen) groups when referring to older groups within the industry. Or when talking about Kpop idols who they don’t personally know (or are so big they’re nervous about any assumption of intimacy). On reality shows like Queendom or Kingdom it’s particularly telling. Some of the funniest moments of Kingdom Legendary Wars is any time Penal (an American from BTOB - an older v established group) tries to convince the youngsters, some of them 10 years his juniors, to use casual language (drop honorifics). The poor things get SO confused. 

BL Deeper Meanings behind Hyung 

Okay so the best show to watch for this one is Semantic Error. 

SangWoo starts out calling JaeYoung sunbae and rarely goes less formal. Technically sunbae is polite, but also slightly insulting in a university narrative of this type. Let me try to explain. Because as they become more intimate, combative or not, friends or frenemies, SangWoo should switch to using hyung, but he pointedly does NOT. 

JaeYoung, on the other hand, always uses extremely informal (to the point of rude) language with SangWoo. (Culturally, he allowed such informality as he is SangWoo’s senior both at university, and in age). But you can watch him get annoyed that SangWoo insists on sticking to sunbae, to the point where he demands SangWoo use hyung. 

Then after that, anytime SangWoo does use hyung JaeYoung totally melts for it, because it was hard fought and won, and it means something powerful and significant is shifting in their intimacy as a result. 

During the mutual kissing at the bar scene, Semantic Error drops yaja time on us. Yaja time is a sanctified reversal of honorifics that essentially allows for a younger person to speak their mind informally and without repercussions (or supposedly so). It’s a kind of way to flirt and tease, but also somewhat taboo and titillating as a game to play when tipsy. You get yaja time in bars/clubs sometimes, like happy hour. If you watch the final episode of Kpop reality show I-land you’ll see a real word example of yaja time in action amongst the contestants, it’s adorable and very funny. 

Semantic Error uses yaja time as an opportunity for drunk SangWoo to finally talk about his real feelings, without the pressure of linguistic formality. 

They also use it for JaeYoung to drop the sluttiest most flirtatious hyungs in the history of all hyunging. Seriously, the boy is dripping seduction with that one world. Why? Because HE CAN. He is making the formality itself a kind of kink. 

You can watch these two on the promo circuit attempt yaja time and even though they have an easy brotherly relationship, you can still see how uncomfortable it makes Jae Chan in particular. 

Other honorific play in Semantic Error: 

The girl who is interested in dating SangWoo calls him oppa, and ALSO requests to use a nickname+oppa with him (the nickname means lettuce). That is pretty blatant flirting. But note she specifically asks if she is allowed to do so? 

Later when JaeYoung confronts her and stakes his claim, notice the thing he really wants corrected is her language with SangWoo? He wants her to go all the way beyond sunbae to formality by using the honorific suffix 씨 (ssi). But there’s also more lettuce wordplay here (I think) because he isn’t insisting she use SangWoo’s full name. 

“You should call him Chu-ssi” which is translated into English as “Mr Chu.” 

A word on oppa and queerness. 

Because the implication is that the person saying oppa is female, you will rarely hear boys use this term for their boyfriends (even if they are out gay, unless they are femme and/or cultivating the association for a very specific and culturally subversive of kinky reason). 

Exception: non native speakers who are happy to fart around with us and the Korean social structure. So early on, NCT’s (Kpop monster group) Mark (Canadian) would refer to Yuta (Japanese) as oppa. I’m not gonna unpack their relationship, but trust me when I say, no native Korean idol would have ever done this, not right now in Korea’s current social state. Well… maybe Holland but that’s a whole other discussion. 

To complicate matters Korean also uses honorific suffixes, but I’m not gonna go into them here. (Read more about Korean honorifics.) 

Instead I’m gonna use Japanese to talk honorific suffixes. Ready? 

Japanese - Names & Honorifics: suffixes & titles 

Like Korean, Japanese uses both suffixes and title honorifics. But I find the suffixes much easier to hear in Japanese than Korean, probubly because I’ve more experience with the language. 

Note: As a foreigner in Japan I’ve alway found it best/easiest to refer to someone using surname-san. 

Japanese names in brief:

Names are said family name first and then given name. But actually, given names are rarely, if ever, said AT ALL (after an initial introduction). 

In BL dramas almost all character’s names and everyday use name will be the family name. (Children are different, but not many of those in JBL.) Teachers may refer to their students by given name-kun. 

So in Old Fashion Cupcake Togawa is his family name (not given name). Nozue (also a surname) who is both older and Togawa’s boss, refers to Togawa simply as Togawa, with no honorifics, probubly because they are both adult characters and have been coworkers for so long, Togawa-kun would be… odd. 

Togawa on the other hand, ALWAYS refers to Nozue as Nozue-san. Even in times of EXTREME intimacy the honorific -san is ALWAYS used. 

We have no idea what the given names are for these characters because we never got to that point of intimacy in their relationship. In Japanese romances the given name is usually the ultimate intimacy and is not exchanged until well into a relationship, sometimes after sex or even after marriage. You can watch the delicate maneuvering around this aspect of intimacy in the kinky het drama Sweat & Soap (it’s not BL, but I still love it, on Viki.) 

Japanese Suffixes you hear the most in BL: 

-chan = is intimate and cute for children, or amongst female friends, or female family/intimates (like your grandma) 

-kun = is for respected juniors, younger or junior co-workers, or young boys, and amongst friends 

-san = is formal/polite and for general use, amongst friends, equals, strangers, and acquaintances 

The best BL to watch to hear all three of these in constant use is Minato’s Laundromat. 

Shin always calls Minato, Minato-san and gets very annoyed when anyone doesn’t do this who should (he want’s his man properly respected). Note that he puts Minato-san into his phone as Akira, tho… daring boy.  

Asuka calls Minato: Akira-san, which he shouldn’t as a kid a generation younger than Minato. He gets away with it because he and Minato are from the same neighborhood and have similar open, friendly natures.  

Minato, on the other hand, struggles with what to call Shin. Technically he should use Katsuki-kun or even Katsuki-chan (which is what he uses on Shin’s sister). Which is Shin’s surname + the suffix for a junior. But Minato is a causal person, so he never bothered with a suffix even at first. Now, informal language is fine from an older person to a younger one, if they have the right personality. But under BL circumstances, Minato’s lack of honorifics kind of gave Shin license to flirt. The moment Minato asked if he could use the nickname Shin he was a goner. 

As Shin becomes more aggressive in his pursuit, Minato hops desperately between different suffixes to try to control the situation: 

Shin (informal and friendly), 

Shin-chan (diminutive, under this context = somewhat demeaning, considering what Shin wants from him), Minato is intentionally lowering Shin’s status and emphasizing his youth when he applies -chan, 

Shin-kun (when he thinks Shin is mad at him, or in public, or when he is annoyed and wants to add formality and distance) 

I talk quite a bit about this in my squee watch of this series. 

Putting someone who should be (or is usually) address by one combo of name (first or last) + suffix into another, by changing either the name of the suffix or both, always has narrative significance for character development or plot or both in Japanese romances. Which is why you get more from the story if you train your ear to listen for these. 

In the picture above, Takara is using -san for sarcasm and to gently chide Amagi. Usually he just uses Amagi with no honorific (they are the same age, and he is a curt characters) or Amagi-kun in public of for call/response address. He has moved to a higher level of formality for emphasis and to make a point in this scene. Communicating properly and avoiding conflict is a hallmark of his character, also (as the seme) he wants to control Amagi. This is all wrapped up in that personality and attitude. He is being teasing and sarcastic, but he is also stressing that this dialogue is important to him. 

Read more on Japanese honorific suffixes here.

Japanese honorific titles you hear the most in BL:

Senpai (先輩、せんぱい) - senior colleague or classmate, roughly equivalent to the Korean sunbae or Thai phi 

Sensei (先生、せんせい) - refers to teachers as well as people who are experts in their respective fields, like doctors, artists, professors, martial arts instructors, or lawyers 

The best BL to watch for use of honorific titles in Japanese is… bet you thought I wasn’t gonna manage to shoehorn it in…. Seven Days!

*insert wild cheering* 

Sereyo (younger) seems to relish and very much enjoy and flirt by using the honorific senpai with Yuzuru. It’s hard to explain, but the way Sereyo says “senpai” whenever they meet is very very… cute. 

You can hear these characters use sensei when in archery practice. And you can hear use of some family suffixes and honorifics since we follow both characters back to their respective homes. 

Sereyo calls Yuzuru, Yuzuru-san, which is Yuzuru’s GIVEN NAME + the honorific. This is unexpected because Yuzuru is his senior. He should call him by his surname + honorific: Shino-san. 

But Sereyo has an issue, which is that Yuzuru has the same last name as his ex-girlfriend, who was also older. So in his previous relationship, Sereyo called his lover: Shino-san, and he doesn’t want to use the same exact name with his new lover, Yuzuru. So despite Yuzuru being his senior, he asks to use Yuzuru’s first name as a mode of address. Yuzuru being the kind of casual blunt personality he is, doesn’t mind the inherent informality and permits this right away. 

More on Japanese honorifics here. 

Mandarin Chinese Honorifics 

Ho boy am I not going to climb into this one. But I will point out that to confuse matters many Chinese honorifics are actually also blood relation titles - 哥 ge (older brother) 弟 di (younger brother) - (like phi/nong, par/ar, hia/jay in Thai). In other words, the honorific actually is both brother (honorable title) and brother (actual word) AND will be applied to cousins. As in: the word for cousin is ALSO the same word as brother. 

In Thai to clear up this relationship a character will often have to state it blatantly: "my real actual older bother, by blood, and not an older male friend” (since phi means both) and not a lover. See this grappled with as a jealously plot point in Star in My Mind. 

But in some Chinese BLs they will also have to explain and distinguish actual blood relationships as different between cousins and siblings. You can watch Addicted deal with these nuances. 

It should be noted for the BL crowd that Mainland Mandarin and Taiwanese Mandarin are ALSO different. So there are language nuances to Taiwanese BL that do not exist in Mainland BL (when it was around) and vice versa. And because Taiwan recognizes equal rights, there is also a whole adapted Chinese linguistic set around queerness. 

I’m mentioning Chinese in this post mainly because it will come into play with Thai honorifics: hia & jie/jay 姐. Personally I struggle to even distinguish names let alone honorifics, I find Mandarin a particularly difficult language. 

Thai - Honorifics, Pronouns, Particles & beyond phi/nong 

I have quite a bit on Thai honorifics and their complexity plus how it relates to BL.

Thai Honorifics Between Ages in BL and real life 

More on Thai Linguistic Registers - Particles & Honorifics 

Thai Pronouns & Honorifics when Seme/Uke is Flipped 

Sarcastic use of honorifics & polite particles in Thai

Linguistic Fun In Thai BL - couples 

The Nu Diminutive in Thai 

Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity 

The most important thing to know, and how it’s different from Korean, is that phi & nong are gender neutral. 

Also honorifics and politeness in Thai plays into both pronoun use and polite particles. Thailand does not have honorific suffixes like Japan or Korea, instead particles (which are kind of like spoken punctuation) come into play. 

It’s complicated, in that there are a lots of ways to indicate relationships in Thai. But less complicated in that, at heart, gender doesn’t impact it as much as in Korean or Vietnamese. Instead, like Japanese’s -san, you can default to formal register by remembering to use khun (+ polite particles). 

Loosely? 

Phi = hyung, noona, unni, oppa, sunbae, or senpai, and its gender neutral. 

Nong = hoobae or -kun or -chan, but is rarely used in direct address. Instead, informality in Thai is characterized by use of casual (or rude) language and lack of honorifics (from the older person to the younger one) + rude or  informal particles. Nong is also gender neutral and can be used as you pronoun (rarely as I), or as a third person pronoun to refer to pets, or as a diminutive attached to a name, it’s… complicated. 

Actually episode 10 of Love Mechanics plays with this. Vee whispers in Mark’s ear the equivalent to “Phi’Vee loves cute nong Masa.” Masa is Mark’s given name and it is Japanese because Mark is half Japanese. 

But then, to tease him, Vee lowers his voice (Japanese men speak from low in the chest) and says: Masa-kun. Kind of the Japanese rephrase of the above. 

Hia = hyung/oppa (it may be used by a younger male or female but is only use on an older male) and specifically ties to Chinese heritage. 

Jie/jay = noona/unni (it may be used by a younger male or female but is only use on an older female) and specifically ties Chinese heritage. It has also been coopted by the queer community and may be translated as “sis” under those circumstances. More about hia here. 

Khun = -ssi or -san, and is a gender neutral formal address. It can be a title Khun + Name (first or last), an I/you pronoun, and also a proper name (ya, know, just for s&gs). Also in families that are more formal it is a mode of polite address for parents, Khun Maa for mother, Khun Paa for father. 

Vietnamese Honorifics

Vietnamese honorifics and modes of address are not my bailiwick but the amazing @squeakygeeky​ has been blogging a series around VBL linguistics and it’s queer struggles with pronouns because of bifurcation around gender. 

Oh boy was this a lot. And I am sorry to @timelesstoothfairy who originally asked this question, I don’t think they realized what a can of worms it opened up. 

Language, how is it SO MUCH FUN? 

(source) 

hes so autism moment

I'm just gonna take a moment and rewrite how I wish Love Mechanics had gone starting at episode 7 because, well, that's where I'm at watching it for free and thus where I'm at..

And now let us embark on... What If?

Imagine if Vee had approached Mark with his apology, Mark rejected him, Vee gets into the motorcycle crash... but he's actually hurt. He says the same thing about wanting to die, he's taken in the ambulance and...

Then we cut to Mark. And we follow him around. We see him meeting up with his friends, see the other engineering folks around but never Vee.

Mark asks about Vee and no one knows because everyone left him after he 'cheated' on Mark. Literally no one knows. Not a single person can tell him anything about Vee except that they haven't seen him and don't want to...

Except Ploy.

And Mark, reluctantly, angrily, asks her about Vee because he hasn't seen them together either and Ploy, confused and shocked, tells him exactly what happened that night and admits she hasn't seen Vee either.

Now, Mark is suddenly scared. He just found out that the reason he rejected and broke both his own heart and Vee's heart was because of a misunderstanding and Vee is just straight up missing in action.

He ends up in the office asking about Vee from a professor which is where he finds out that Vee had to request time off after a motorcycle accident and Mark just... cannot handle that.

He rushes to tell Yeewha and Bar and Nuea what happened and they find out the truth about the Ploy kiss from him and they all rush, together, to find Vee at home and they find a mess.

Vee's drunk, he's an absolute mess and depression and hopeless with a broken leg and a broken heart and he blocks them all out. He locks the door, refuses to answer the phone, they only get in because of his very worried family.

And the rest of the show is Mark and friends and even Ploy working together to pull Vee out of this and prove that he's still worthy of love and that, yes, he's done wrong before and he was trying to do better and that he deserves a chance to do better.

Mark becomes the pursuer, Mark becomes the healer, Vee becomes the one to be loved, Vee becomes the one who needs Mark to find him and help him put himself back together.

Honestly, the idea of Vee forcefully pursuing Mark without explaining what happened and just turning this into him smiling and grinning through all of it while Mark struggles more is... less interesting to me than Vee's pain.

Love Mechanics Episode 6 as Text Posts (p1) (p2) (p3)

Be My Favorite is digging into concepts of masculinity to a degree I haven't seen in Thai BL before. Since episode 2 we've been seeing the contrast between the kind of man Kawi is and the kind he thinks he should be, and 3 and 4 have drawn a big highlighted circle around what, for simplicity, I'm going to call bro culture: the whole complex of male social behavior that includes competition, ritual humiliation, stark othering of women (both "chivalrous" and not), and a rugged, deflective response to pain.

I'm saying bro culture rather than toxic masculinity because only some elements of it are toxic, although they're so intermingled that it's hard to sift the toxic from the non. You have to work to create a bro culture without misogyny and homophobia - although a lot of BLs (Bad Buddy, for example) do exactly this. Be My Favorite isn't interested in doing that though: it is presenting bro culture unsanitized, and looking at how our two leads interact with it.

On the one hand we have Kawi, who has very clearly always failed to meet bro culture standards, and who still sees success in that sphere as something to aim for. And it's not that the bros reject him outright. Someone like Kawi is great to have around, because for everyone else it means never being at the bottom of the pack. It's not that Not and his group dislike Kawi or want to hurt him. If you asked them, they'd say in all sincerity that they're just trying to help him out. What they're actually doing is using him to affirm their own superior bro-ness: whether they're helping him or mocking him, he lets them feel that they're succeeding where he fails.

Pisaeng sees this much more clearly than Kawi does, hence his facepalm when Kawi tells the other guys he's a virgin. Pisaeng could succeed in bro culture: he could be top dog in that group if he wanted to. It's because he could succeed that he's able to see so clearly that he doesn't want to. When a prize looks hopelessly out of your reach, it's hard to see that it might be worthless.

Pisaeng is frustrated because he's seeing Kawi try so hard to achieve something Pisaeng has already rejected. Kawi is confused because he sees how easily Pisaeng succeeds by bro standards, and yet he's still lonely and discontent. He's always been attracted to Pisaeng (just look at how Pisaeng's introduction, in Kawi's pov, is framed) but he has chosen to interpret that through the bro lens of admiration and envy.

I think we're going to have to see Kawi make a conscious rejection of bro culture. Whether that comes about through his deepening friendships with Max and Pear, or through realizing his feelings for Pisaeng, at some point he's going to have to decide that that prize is not worth winning. I hope we see this, because it's rare for BLs to deal so directly with conflicting views of masculinity, and what being gay or bi means for a young man's sense of self.

a beluca concert technician shared how they managed to sneak off on stage during his mermaid villain performance, our man really had to contort himself to give us the biggest slay of the night 😍🥰