*former JUST 100% DoomReed Shipper*

*former JUST 100% DoomReed shipper*

*DoomStrange crashes in chaotically with 100,000 ship crumbs*

HOLY-

When a new ship enters the fandom and it tries to overrun your OTP:

Credits: https://youtu.be/8UjWwMtrETk

Hello! I love your blog very much! I’m sure this is a relevant topic to modern media seeing as WandaVision is so GOOD but, how would you describe Wanda’s relationship to Stephen in the comics? Has it been problematic or more like an actual friendship historically? When are some good examples of times he’s helped her out of sticky situations?? (Sorry it’s a lot! I’ve been trying to research but can’t find any good comic reading lists for the pair 😭)

Greetings, anon, and thank you for such kind words!

Concerning Wanda’s relationship to Stephen... I don’t believe it has ever been problematic, let alone more than actual friendship. Some people may disagree - and I’ve seen some discourse towards Stephen, especially coming from Wanda fans - but I understand where they came from: House of M.

I’m so done with House of M after so many years, and it’s understanble that it still haunts Wanda fans. They usually claim that Stephen is patronizing - and I won’t deny it. He can be patronizing sometimes, even though it’s a little bit off in House of M. He doesn’t use magic to subdue people. But it’s Bendis, who also presented us with fascistavengers and the Illuminati.

Now, back to more classic comics, Stephen is quite sweet towards Wanda. If you check Englehart’s The Vision and Scarlet Witch run, you’ll see a very regardful doctor taking care of his friend and patient, when Wanda was about to give birth to the twins by the first time. Also Stephen himself delivered the children (he shouldn’t be doing this, he’s a neurosurgeon but who cares at this point, am I right?)

When it comes to magic, Wanda really admires Stephen’s power, while Stephen never doubted her mystic skills, to the point of offering mentorship to her. The only reason Wanda declined was because she was busy with her family and the Avengers, later becoming Agatha’s apprentice.

They also fought Dracula together and shared a few adventures. In fact, Stephen 100% supported her magic abilities when Clea, Stephen and Wanda went to Hel in order to heal Thor from Thanos’ assault.

Whenever there’s a mystic conflict, Stephen, Wanda, Illyana, Jericho and Michael always come together to perform a powerful spell, as seen in Civil War II and Extraordinary X-Men #8, for instance. Besides, they also hang out at the Bar with no Doors.

Again, I can understand why people may dislike Stephen, but if they’re limited to House of  M or 10′s comics in which Stephen is portrayed as the ultimate jerk, I suppose they don’t get the character at all, let alone their relationship.

Lastly, to the list of good comics:

1 - Marvel Team-Up v1 Annual #5 2 - Marvel Team-Up v1 #125 3 - Doctor Strange - Master of the Mystic Arts #60 4 - Avengers v1 #240-241 5 - Vision and the Scarlet Witch #4; #6; #11-12 6 - Doctor Strange - Sorcerer Supreme #35 7 - West Coast Avengers #79 8 - Doctor Strange - Sorcerer Supreme #46-47 9 - Darkhold #5-7 10 - Secret Defenders #6-8 11 - Doctor Strange v4 #1-10 (after Empirikul’s assault on Earth’s sorcerers) 12 - Doctor Strange v5 - Annual #1

Warning: If you value their relationship, do not go anywhere near the following issues ->

Empyre: X-Men #1; #4, Avengers v1 #503 and House of M #1-8.

Personally, I really dislike Empyre: X-Men for several reasons, and that includes the way Stephen treats Wanda. Avengers #503 is a House of M tie-in, which explains it all.

PS: I’m gathering team-ups with many characters for quite some time now and I intend to put it together soon. And Wanda is one of them, so stay tuned!

And that’s it! Oh, and there’s no need to apologize, it’s always an honor! I hope you find the list helpful!

This is Victor in Stephen’s dms. You cannot tell me it’s not-

Oh my vishanti, Stephen’s hiding his feelings again. RUn that back please..

Oh and let’s not forget...

Oh and then there’s-

Stephen, you love Clea. Always have, always will. Dont come in here with no “oUtDatEd inFoRmAtiOn.” After all this mess she told him to get his job back and clean himself up and he did just that. She cares about him and he knows that. I don’t think he’s ever lost his feelings for her. She is literally the healthiest relationship with another human that he HAS.

This man feels guilt so freaking deeply. I hate it but I love it. Good for him for at least knowing what he did was very wrong

Stephen’s indelible sin

For those who follow me for a while, you’re probably aware that I speak of guilt and self-loathing A LOT when it comes to Stephen. Once I wrote about his most terrible sin, but since then, I’ve gathered MORE information concerning Stephen and Hulk’s relationship. And, on a personal level, I think both fans and writers should explore this bond more, given their history.

Today, I’ll bring a detailed review on Stephen’s mistake and how it escalated into a pain that will never cease to exist within his heart and soul.

Warning: get your handkerchiefs ready, this is about to become sad quite rapidly.

We’ll begin our journey of angst in 1967, as seen in Strange Tales #156-157. In order to prevent Umar from walking on Earth, the Ancient One advises Stephen to release an evil and powerful demon called Zom. The demon is able to defeat Umar, but his strength is overwhelming, enough to give the Ancient One a hard time. Zom’s power is so evil and cursed that releasing him is a deed that catches the Living Tribunal’s (undue) attention. The Living Tribunal is so offended he wants to destroy Earth. And guess what? He blames Stephen, even though he was a mere apprentice imbued with blind obedience at that time.

The Living Tribunal imprisons Zom again, while Stephen convinces the deity that Earth deserves another chance. Stephen basically saves the planet, as usual, while Zom remains dormant for literally decades.

We’ll skip now to a not-so-canon event called “the birth of the Illuminati”, or “how Stephen ruined his life for good out of arrogance and toxic masculinity”. It’s uncertain when they first gathered to boss around the planet, but according to History Of The Marvel Universe #3 (2019) and New Avengers: Illuminati #1 (2007), they made this decision after the Kree/Skrull War, creating a secret council to answer for all humanity, even though humanity itself wasn’t aware of those dubious representatives. The Kree/Skrull war dates back to 1971, which means they spent decades plotting their hidden agendas.

Still, they’re heroes, right? They wouldn’t harm people, would they? They wouldn’t harm their friends or make mistakes. They’re supposed to be the smartest, most powerful people on Earth. Oh. Let me tell you something. Their very first mission was the reason why we had Civil War and Secret Invasion. Yes. It’s their fault that the Skrulls invaded Earth. And yes, Stephen is to blame because he was there with the group when they first threatned the Skrulls never to come back, or else they’d face them. Hah.

However, this is not his indelible sin. As you all know, what I consider an irreparable mistake was sending Hulk to Sakaar. And what’s even worse? It wasn’t the first time that Stephen tried to banish Hulk, as seen in The Incredible Hulk v1 #305 (1985).

But why is Stephen so haunted by banishing a menace? Because Hulk was, foremost, a dearest friend.

From Defenders v1 #12 (1973)

When it comes to Hulk’s friendships, people always think of Rick Jones, Amadeus Cho, even his cousin Jennifer Walters. But few people remember that Stephen and Valkyrie were two of the first heroes to treat Hulk kindly and with respect, even though Hulk always called Stephen names (the most iconic, “dumb magician”, which is a personal favorite of mine).

Stephen has always treated Hulk as an equal, as someone who is so much more than a mindless brute. So it’s really strange for me to read that, at some point, Stephen tried to banish him twice.

Sadly, it happened. The first was not as iconic as the second, though. So I’m focusing on the latter. Remember the Illuminati? The group thought they had the right to decide Hulk’s fate after he went berserk and destroyed Las Vegas. And Stephen agreed to it. Namor, who was also a member of the Defenders along with Stephen and Hulk, was the only one who refused, as seen in New Avengers: Illuminati One-Shot (2006). The three of them were the original members. Stephen should’ve known better. So why would he agree to this?

Because, again, the Illuminati are a very dubious group whose foundations are based on toxic masculinity. Powerful, egoic men left unchecked. And Stephen, as Earth’s most powerful sorcerer, couldn’t resist the call. The Ancient One was dead. The mantle of the Sorcerer Supreme was his. Clea left him years later - and he never told her about his dirty little secret, something that is subtly confirmed somewhere between New Avengers: Illuminati #4 (2007) and Avengers v4 #9 (2011).

Thus, it seems that Stephen, at some point, decided that he was better than everyone around him, a trait that was supposed to be buried in the past along with his arrogant neurosurgeon self. The kind man who has always praised his allies was now gone.

Except… World War Hulk happened. Long story short, Hulk ended up in Sakaar and found a new life after defeating his captor. He married and became king, and he was happy (you can get a very shady glimpse of this story in MCU’s Thor: Ragnarok, but that version is quite family friendly. World War Hulk is far worse). But then, the ship which the Illuminati created to send him into space exploded, killing his wife in the process. Spoiler: it wasn’t the Illuminati. It was Miek, who framed the Illuminati so Hulk would call revenge upon them. Enraged as never seen before, Hulk was truly decided to kill Reed, Tony, Black Bolt and… yes, Stephen.

At first, Stephen tried to reason with him. But Hulk’s hatred was beyond words. Stephen had all his fingers broken, ouch. Imagine his pain, assuming his hands were once injured in the car accident and still hurt from the damage and all the surgeries he has been through…

Now, as you know, Stephen is stubborn as hell. Remember the demon Zom? When everything else failed to stop the Hulk, Stephen finally corrupted his soul and let the demon possess him. Obviously, he lost control and almost harmed innocent people, which was enough for him to be distracted long enough for Hulk to finish him off.

In the end, Hulk discovered the truth behind the explosion and, after a rage outburst, transformed back to Banner. Stephen almost died that day by the hands of his friend. But he didn’t. All that was left from that sad event was guilt. Endless, heavy guilt.

One could arguee that Stephen is out of character. And I would’ve agreed with you, except… Nor time nor actions were good enough to heal Stephen’s heart. It never went away. Never.

The reason why he forfeited the mantle of the Sorcerer Supreme? Because he used Zom’s dark magic and hurt Bruce deeply. And that affected him on so many levels that he didn’t find himself worthy anymore.

From New Avengers v1 Annual #2 (2008).

It didn’t stop there. He tried time and time again. He was never able to find the proper words to apologize because he knows words will never heal the pain he inflicted on his friend.

These thoughts are Stephen’s. “Two words I’ll repeat for the rest of my days. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.” (From Incredible Hulks #618)

And poor Stephen even goes and tries to compensate his lack of expertise when it comes to interpersonal relationships, projecting his relationship with Hulk into, well, another Hulk. He’s so afraid of making the same mistakes he doesn’t even know where the line is drawn.

From Weapon H #2 (2018).

As I said, it will never go away. And Stephen knows it.

From Defenders v4 #1 (2011).

The point is, people make mistakes. And sometimes these mistakes are just too painful to be erased. Stephen strongly believes he’ll never be forgiven, which is quite sad because this sin will always be a source of guilt for him. Whether or not Hulk forgives Stephen in the future, it will always remain a burden.

Personally, I believe that blaming himself for what happened to Hulk is even worse than blaming himself for Clea’s departure. Because, see, Clea has forgiven Stephen over the years. They still love each other and, once you ignore Fearless Defenders, there’s no sin. They both agreed to take separate ways, even though their love still existed.

But Hulk? It’s a story about betrayal between friends. It’s quite cruel and sad for both sides. I can only hope that, someday, a writer will make it up for them. They deserve another chance. And, as unreliable as I am, all I want to see is a happy Stephen.

The exact same energy. Well said Oscar Wilde! Well said Stephen!

“Why do people like a character who’s committed war crimes but hate this other character just because they’re annoying” because it’s fiction Susan, and being annoying in fiction is a greater sin than being a supervillain, because it won’t make me want to read about them. It isn’t difficult to understand