Asoiaf Speculation - Tumblr Posts

I hate those Daenerys is going to sacrifice herself/die theories so much it genuinely makes me tweak and I have never been the type of person to get upset at all over fiction or any type of media, but this irks me so bad because not only is Daenerys my absolute favorite character of all time, it’s upsetting how the female character is always the one who has to die for others sakes and never achieve anything for herself. Yes, it’s her destiny as AA to fight the Others, but that doesn’t mean that she has to die doing it. Like, seriously, after we got F&B and saw how many Targaryen women struggled with misogyny and being passed over for the throne, it feels upsetting to me if the one who is supposed to break the wheel will never have a chance to do so. I do love Bran but I do not see him fit to sit on the throne, not to mention how young he is and will be at the series end unless George does a massive timeskip, and after the whole world is in shambles after the Long Night, who is more fitting to sit on the throne and help mend things and lead the people forward? A well experienced ruler and fighter who will bring along a new age of change, or a child with no such experience? Perhaps it’s just me being salty but I just really want the best for my favorite character who I believe deserves to have her shot at having a home and being able to rule and change the world together with the other characters. Especially after the end of GoT, which no I don’t ever believe that George will go that route, but with how everything happened in the show, it looked like Westeros was a completely and utter mess and there was nobody capable left to pick up the pieces, Bran’s ascension to the throne was so random too and didn’t even feel satisfying or like a good conclusion (not that those two incapable idiots could ever produce a satisfying ending, but yeah). What are your thoughts on this? I just feel sad that fellow Dany fans are literally enthusiastically waiting for her death in the upcoming books as if there isn’t a better destiny for her :( The female character who managed to rise to power and become a ruler in her own right dying or giving that up to the men in order to “settle down” leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and doesn’t look like the subversion George has done with her character at all.

I definitely agree with you anon, Dany dying/sacrificing herself really doesn't seem to fit with her story. Yes, Dany certainly would be willing to die to save the world, but that doesn't seem to be where GRRM is writing her.

Dany's story is saturated with life; which is pretty ironic since she's been called "Daughter of Death". She's closely tied to themes of fertility (mother of dragons, helloo), rebirth (Azor Ahai, entering the pyre), and survival/endurance.

Dany's story shares very little similarities to characters who have been set up for death. For example, Robb. Dany may share some superficial similarities to Robb, but the signs of Robb's impending death are not shared at all. GRRM always sets up the deaths of his major characters from their introductions. That hasn't happened with Dany; if anything we see a set up to her surviving.

You're so right about how people are foaming at the mouth for Dany's death. Her dying after everything she's been through and everything she stands for is just...no. It feels so gross and has some really concerning undertones.

The woman who actually fought for change and made a massive upheaval in the status quo, who genuinely cares for all her people, who understands the responsibility of ruling, who demonstrates incredible wisdom, who only wants to make the world better dying for the sake of the story is just wow.

Attending the corpse of Jon Snow

Happy Ides of Marsh!! (This is the updated one)

DAENERYS TARGARYEN APPRECIATION WEEK 2023

Day 7: Theories/speculation

The usurpation of two women who were the rightful heirs to the throne caused the Long Night and the death of the dragons. Now, Daenerys, who brought the dragons back to life, will use them to end the Long Night and sit the throne.

Kissed by fire

Something’s just occurred to me: Is it just a coincidence that the first woman Jon loved was kissed by fire, or could it be Jonerys foreshadowing? I don’t want to hold onto anything vague too tightly, but I find this quite interesting.

I just wanted to write down some of my Jon/Dany thoughts before I go to sleep. This isn’t in tracked tags, and I’m sorry I can’t help it about search. I don’t wanna argue with people about this, ok?

(this is about the books, this is about ships I like, (this is about tywin), this is about asoiaf themes, please do not talk to me about that show)

Keep reading

Jon, Daenerys, & Wife Stealing.

And when the Thief was in the Moonmaid, that was a propitious time for a man to steal a woman, Ygritte insisted. "Like the night you stole me. The Thief was bright that night."

"I never meant to steal you," he said. "I never knew you were a girl until my knife was at your throat."

"If you kill a man, and never mean t', he's just as dead," Ygritte said stubbornly. 

A Storm of Swords, Jon III

If he loved you, he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl, the girl in her insisted, but the queen knew that was folly. Even if her captain was mad enough to attempt it, the Brazen Beasts would cut him down before he got within a hundred yards of her.

A Dance With Dragons, Daenerys VII

Amongst the free folk, when a man desires a woman, he steals her, and thus proves his strength, his cunning, and his courage. The suitor risks a savage beating if he is caught  by the woman's kin, and worse than that if she herself finds him unworthy.

A Dance With Dragons, Jon XIII

I'm quite convinced that if when Jon & Daenerys finally meet in the upcoming books, there's gonna be some symbolic wife-stealing going on. Ever since Jon accidentally stole Ygritte, wife-stealing as proof of a man's love & ability to provide has been a reoccurring theme in his narrative with the Free Folk. And here we have Daenerys, halfway across the world with no exposure to the custom, wishing that Daario, a man whom she is very much in love with, would steal her away at swordpoint as proof of his love for her. She even compares the daydream to what she believes happened between Rhaegar & Lyanna, where her much-idolized older brother "carried off his northern girl." The thought of a man she desires carrying her off in the night clearly seems quite romantic to her.

I think Jon will somehow "carry off" Daenerys, symbolically making them man & wife. and unlike when he first took Ygritte, this wife-stealing won't be an accident. Maybe he'll even do it when the Thief is in the Moonmaid. (note: throughout the books Daenerys is associated with the moon & lunar imagery a lot.)

But I think the irony of the situation will come in here:

"He's of my village. You know nothing, Jon Snow. A true man steals a woman from afar, t' strengthen the clan. Women who bed brothers or fathers or clan kin offend the gods, and are cursed with weak and sickly children. Even monsters."

A Storm of Swords, Jon III

When Jon steals/falls in love with/marries/allies with Daenerys, he'll be under the impression that he's "strengthening the clan" (aka his family & the North itself) by partnering a woman who he believes to be as far from being kin as one could possibly get. Only to find out, lo and behold, they've secretly been aunt & nephew this whole time! oops : /

If / when Jon bonds with any of Dany's dragons, I need it to be Viserion so, so badly. Like yeah Jon is Rhaegar's son & Rhaegal is named after him so blah blah who cares. think about the aesthetic of it all. The silver queen rides the black dragon, so the black brother should ride the white dragon. A boy named Snow who already has a white wolf, with a white dragon? How perfect is that?

And I can make it work narratively, too; I will get into this in more depth someday, but for the longest I've felt that there were some intentional anti parallels going on with the Viserys-Daenerys & Jon-Arya relationships in AGOT. That being the contrast between an oppressive & hateful older brother who has mentally, physically, & sexually abused his younger sister, versus a loving brother who cherishes & encourages his sister. "The cream-and-gold I call Viserion. Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not." (ACOK, Daenerys I) Like how Jon could be a good older brother when Viserys could not? Idk, maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but either way I'd prefer for the dragon Jon bonds with to be Viserion.

In GRRM’s books, he seems to hold true to the expression of ‘Third time’s the Charm’ and the results are different the third time something happens…

So if we take the Pact of Ice and Fire, which was :

The Pact of Ice and Fire was an alliance between Houses Stark and Targaryen arranged during the Dance of the Dragons.

At the start of the civil war, Prince Jacaerys Velaryon flew to Winterfell to gain House Stark and the North for the cause of his mother, Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen.[1][2]

According to Mushroom, Prince Jacaerys secretly married Lord Cregan Stark’s bastard sister, Sara Snow, which led to the pact. It was agreed that the firstborn daughter of Prince Jacaerys would marry Lord Cregan’s son and heir, Rickon.[3] Lord Roderick Dustin led the Winter Wolves to join the blacks, while House Manderly also contributed knights to Rhaenyra’s side.[1] Lord Cregan himself led a host to King’s Landing near the end of the war, but they arrived after the death of King Aegon II Targaryen.[2] Cregan briefly governed in the capital as Hand of the King during the Hour of the Wolf.[4]Although a royal princess never did marry into the Starks, Cregan gained many rewards for his support of King Aegon III Targaryen.[5]

Then we have Rhaegar and Lyanna and that ended in disaster.

Maybe Jon and Dany will finally make the pact of Ice and Fire and this time they will marry and actually make that alliance official….

a lot of jonerys antis say that there aren't enough time for jon and dany to have a romance in the last two books what do you think about this ?

"not enough time for romance", what does that even mean?

as far as Canon is concerned, both Jon and Dany will meet in the middle to fulfill their clear destiny in the War of Dawn, and if GRRM doesn't want to make a joke of himself as D&D did, his final antagonist, the literal apocalypse will last at least good months, time in which the two will be brought together and some kind of relationship and dynamic will ensue naturally, not matter its nature

romance doesn't stop happening on the side because other things are going on; does there need to be a romantic plot gated enclosure in the narrative? can't Jon and Dany walk and chew at the same time?

how many "books" did Daenerys need to have a romance with Daario and call it love, with Drogo and call it love? for Jon to have a romance with Ygritte and call it love?

is there a timetable for romance? graphs and checklists? Jon and Dany could meet today and be lovestruck in a day or a week? or they could come together as cold allies and grow over close over sharing the crucial leading experience in a fight of life and death? or they could just be buddies or accept each other as family or just as partners?

but the idea that "time" is decisive in matters such as this? Lol, some people on this site try so hard to appear "high and above" that they no longer appear to seem to understand how a person works

SNOWSTORM SUMMER 2022 ↳ A Game of Thrones and A Dance With Dragons Parallel

“Please, please, Viserys, I don’t want to, I want to go home.” - Daenerys I, A Game of Thrones 

Bring her home, Mance. I saved your son from Melisandre, and now I am about to save four thousand of your free folk. You owe me this one little girl. - Jon XI, A Dance With Dragons

“I’d let his whole khalasar f-ck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army. - Daenerys I, A Game of Thrones 

Would she still have that little sword he’d had Mikken forge for her? Stick them with the pointy end, he’d told her. Wisdom for her wedding night if half of what he heard of Ramsay Snow was true. - Jon XI, A Dance With Dragons

The Snowstorm dynamic I want to see once they meet in the books:

Jon: You should be addicted to shutting the fuck up

Dany: You want to fuck me so bad it makes you look stupid.

(I want them to go from being irritated by each other to being irritated how hot the other is to falling in love).

Jon eyeing up Val in ADwD and considering her as “lovely” makes me smile, he’s so awkward and cute but it also made me think of some parallels…

Val wrapped in her bearskin…

Dany wrapped in her lionskin…

Val’s honey blonde hair shining like silver in the moonlight…

Dany’s silver-gold hair shining like molten silver…

A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her.

Jon’s Targ genes activating when he sees Dany atop her dragon for the first time:

I haven’t read the books but I always see those 2 quotes “ghost wolf big as mountains” and “in the distance a wolf howled, it made her feel sad and lonely but no less hungry.” Why do Sansa and Dany both hear Jon die? Why not just Dany or just Sansa? Why both? Why either of them at all? How come Arya and Bran don’t hear it? Especially bc Sansa has no connection with animals or warging.

Oh no, no, anon. The howl Sansa hears happens an entire book before Jon’s death. In other words…

Sansa did not hear Ghost howl.

How am I so certain? Ghost doesn’t howl.:

Benjen: A very quiet wolf.Jon: He’s not like the others. He never makes a sound. That’s why I named him Ghost. That, and because he’s white. The others are all dark, grey or black.

Ghost sat on his haunches watching, silent as ever. Will he howl for me when I’m dead, as Bran’s wolf howled when he fell?

He found Ghost atop the hill, as he thought he might. The white wolf never howled.

Ghost doesn’t howl. He’s silent. Sansa heard the howl in A Feast for Crows, which is one full book before Jon dies in A Dance with Dragons. And that is important. Because Ghost does not howl on his own, it is implied that he howled for Jon upon his death, probably because Jon warged into him with his last moments on earth:

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered.

Yet… Daenerys did hear Ghost howl.

I know, I know, Ghost doesn’t howl. Not on his own, anyway… What Daenerys heard was likely a plea from a dying skinchanger. And oh, is this a fun tale! One of my favorites.

First of all, the timing matches up. Twenty-five pages after Jon is killed, Daenerys hears a wolf howl that made her feel sad and lonely.

At the time, Daenerys is in the Dothraki Sea, a world away from Jon. There aren’t really wolves native to the area, so we can rule those out.

Out in the plains, Daenerys is having trouble finding food. What she does find are some strange green berries that end up giving her some trippy visions and a very graphic depiction of a loose bowel movement (poor Dany).

These two symptoms paired together sound a lot like a drug here on earth, Ayahuasca:

“The psychedelic effects of ayahuasca include visual and auditory stimulation, the mixing of sensory modalities, and psychological introspection that may lead to great elation, fear, or illumination. Its purgative properties are important (known as la purga or “the purge”). The intense vomiting and occasional diarrhea it induces…“

The psychoactive ingredient in Ayahuasca is dimethyltryptamine (DMT):

“Rick Strassman has theorised that the human pineal gland is capable of producing the hallucinogen N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) under certain circumstances. In 2013 he and other researchers first reported DMT in the pineal gland microdialysate of rodents.”

…The pineal gland.

“The pineal gland represents a kind of atrophied photoreceptor.In the epithalamus of some species of amphibians and reptiles, it is linked to a light-sensing organ, known as the parietal eye, which is also called the pineal eye or third eye.”

Through the use of these berries (which seem to have a lot in common with Ayahuasca), Daenerys might’ve ’opened her third eye’.

Bran Stark gives us an important clue about third eyes:

“Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted, and once he had even touched Ghost and talked to Jon.”

What makes this so intriguing is that, like Bran, Daenerys is also a skinchanger. It’s subtle, but the proof is there in the first book:

“The slightest pressure with her legs, the lightest touch on the reins, and the filly responded. She sent it into a gallop, and now the Dothraki were hooting and laughing and shouting at her as they jumped out of her way. A daring she had never known filled Daenerys then, and she gave the filly her head. The silver horse leapt the flames as if she had wings.”

From the Wiki:

“An untrained skinchanger may unconsciously enter the mind of an animal.”

and

“The interaction between the skinchanger’s and animal’s minds influence both personalities.”

Dany suddenly found a ‘daring she had never known’, likely from bonding with her horse.

Lastly… (and this is my favorite part)

This is a controversial theory, but the berries she ate might’ve caused a miscarriage:

“As she splashed her face, she saw fresh blood on her thighs. The ragged hem of her undertunic was stained with it. The sight of so much red frightened her. Moon blood, it’s only my moon blood, but she did not remember ever having such a heavy flow.”

And remember…

“Only death can pay for life.”

In summary: Jon dies. He wargs into Ghost. He howls as a plea for help. Daenerys hears his howl. And with her miscarriage, might’ve provided the death that will pay for Jon’s life.

If, like me, you’d like to believe that Dany and Ghost share a connection, then perhaps Jon and Drogon do, too (after all, the name Drogon in Tolkien languages translates to ‘male wolf’).

These two dark-colored dragons (Drogon and Jon) were both just stabbed. A distraught Drogon conveniently takes Daenerys right to the berries that might’ve opened up a psychic connection between Jon and Daenerys…

Anyway. This theory is way too fun so it probably can’t be true. *sighs*

Hi there! Love your blog

I don’t believe in lemongate. This post here is very good and has many links that explain many of the evidences against the theory that Dany’s origins are somehow a lie. But to summarize, there are records of Dany’s birth, people know about it. And Viserys himself was 8 years old. This is young, but not too young that he wouldn’t remember his sister being born.

Maybe you could try to say that Rhaella gave birth to a stillborn and somehow someone brought a new baby to take the place of her child. But why would anyone do that? The Targaryens were being hunted. If Rhaella gave birth to a stillborn, wouldn’t it be better to simply tell the truth, that the child died? Why bring another random kid to pretend to be Rhaella’s child, only so that this kid can be hunted for being a Targaryen? And if the theory about Ashara and Ned being Dany’s parents was somehow true, why would Ned or Ashara or anyone want to have their kid pose as a Targaryen kid that was being hunted down exactly because she was a Targaryen? And wouldn’t Viserys remember if he had waited for a new baby to travel the distance to join them? Because if Rhaella had a stillborn, they wouldn’t immediately have a new baby ready to replace her dead baby. They would have to wait for someone to send this kid to them to replace Rhaella’s baby. And Viserys would remember having to wait for a baby to arrive after his mother’s death. So yeah, I don’t really think it makes sense. Besides, it’s not true that trees don’t grow in Braavos:

Trees did not grow on Braavos, save in the courts and gardens of the mighty. - Samwell III, AFFC

Trees grow in the gardens of the mighty. So most likely, Dany lived there, and the big “mystery” about the house with the red door is probably going to be revealed when we find out someone powerful in Braavos has some connections to the Targaryens. Maybe even the Sealord, because the Sealord was a witness of the marriage pact between Arianne and Viserys. So maybe, the Sealord will have some interest in Dany.

Finally, I just don’t see any narrative purpose in having Dany not be Aerys and Rhaella’s child. How is this important to the story? So, Dany is not Aerys’s daughter. So what happens? Does she find out and gives up on her claim? But if the point of the story is for Dany to give up on her claim, wouldn’t it make more sense for it to be Dany’s choice to do it for the greater good, and not something that happens just because Dany’s not the heir anymore? And if Dany is portrayed as a good person because she gave up her claim in favor of someone else who has the right blood, wouldn’t this just endorse the narrative that blood is the most important thing in a ruler? Why would GRRM write something like that? And if Dany is a bastard, what does this add to the narrative? It shows that anyone can rise despite being a bastard? But we already have that story with Jon Snow. And with Dany as well. Because she rose from nothing, whether she’s a trueborn princess or a bastard, Dany’s achievements are her own, they don’t change if her parentage changes. And what happens to Dany’s concerns that she might be mad like her father? With this theory, her concerns can conveniently go away and you lose all of her internal struggle about it. You lose the theme of children not having to be like their parents, because in this case, Dany would no longer be Aerys child, so if she’s not mad, people will simply say that it’s because she’s not Aerys’ daughter, and not because “children are not their parents”. So this theory undermines one of the themes in her story. The only other thing I can think is that maybe this could cause political conflict if someone can prove that Dany is not Aerys’ daughter (which is very unlikely to be proved). But I just don’t see anything that I would consider to be really meaningful in the idea that Dany is not who she thinks she is, and I also think it’s redundant, because we already have a secret parentage with Jon. The fandom has a ton of secret parentage theories, but I don’t think that every single character has to fit into some kind of big conspiracy of baby exchange or secret parentages, I tend to think those theories are all really far-fetched and unnecessary.

dany remembers a lemon tree near the house with the red door in braavos

arya notices that there are no trees in bravos

sam mentions that the exception is courts and gardens

there’s the sealord palace in braavos and as depicted on the map it has greenery

dany describes house with the red doors as having ‘wooden beams with carved animal faces adorning them’

“The Sealord’s Palace contains the Sealord’s menagerie.”

elissa farman stole three of rhaena’s dragon eggs and sold them to the sealord….

house with the red door is the sealord’s palace and dany’s dragons hatched from rhaena’s stolen eggs. what is also interesting is as @adreamofspring​ mentioned, rhaena was the one who started the tradition of putting dragon eggs to baby targaryens’ cradles to make them bond quicker and as @etherealdany​ noticed dany becomes stronger after her second dragon dream. did dany have those eggs since she was born and was separated from them because of illyrio?

Do you have any personal theories regarding the Maiden Made of Light, Great Empire of the Dawn, House Dayne, and Daenerys?

I just found out Daenerys’ name means “Lady of Light” and I fell down a rabbit hole of Azor Ahai/ Nissa Nissa/Maiden Made of Light/Amethyst Empress all being connected to Dany.

I don't know if this is a "theory" so much as a feeling, but I have suspected for a while that Daenerys will become a sort of god or at least a spiritual figure of nature people will worship in Essos for generations after her eventual death. not just become legend, I mean actual WORSHIP in at least a couple of areas and for some diff ethnic groups. Under a different but a similar-sounding name to her original. No "Maiden of Light" but any of her titles could become her god-name. She wouldn't like it, but her impact ran away from her, I'm afraid.

Make of that what you will. 😏

nothing about House Dayne, I'm void on them.

"accepts marriage to gain power"

So you remember how this one guy sold his own sister to a brutal warlord as a bridal slave in exchange for an army, remarking,

"I'd let his whole khalasar fuck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army. Be grateful it is only Drogo. In time you may even learn to like him. Now dry your eyes. Illyrio is bringing him over, and he will not see you crying."

Welp, this apparently was Dany "accepting marriage to gain power." A post going around that discusses Dany passages in which antis twist, distort, and wildly misrepresent what happens, prompted the following to come to my mind as well. It seems to me that Sansa stans/Jonsas cannot deny GRRM is drawing connections between Dany and Jon as he tells their individual stories but they absolutely.cannot.be.parallels. Jon is Sansa's parallel! Dany must be the Evil Queen and Prince Jon's foil! The thing is, for that to be, some creative "retelling" is required.

This was written by a Jonsa/Stansa/Stark stan.

I really am quite taken aback by the boldness to outright lie like this about plot points of any piece of readily available media in a public forum, much less on a forum for discussion of the book being distorted to the nth degree here. Talk about telling on yourself as a fibber...

So take a look at this passage again...

"I'd let his whole khalasar fuck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army. Be grateful it is only Drogo. In time you may even learn to like him. Now dry your eyes. Illyrio is bringing him over, and he will not see you crying."

Take a lil read of this from Dany's very first chapter of ASOIAF...

The old woman washed her long, silver-pale hair and gently combed out the snags, all in silence. The girl scrubbed her back and her feet and told her how lucky she was. "Drogo is so rich that even his slaves wear golden collars. A hundred thousand men ride in his khalasar, and his palace in Vaes Dothrak has two hundred rooms and doors of solid silver." There was more like that, so much more, what a handsome man the khal was, so tall and fierce, fearless in battle, the best rider ever to mount a horse, a demon archer. Daenerys said nothing. She had always assumed that she would wed Viserys when she came of age. For centuries the Targaryens had married brother to sister, since Aegon the Conqueror had taken his sisters to bride. The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men. Yet now Viserys schemed to sell her to a stranger, a barbarian. When she was clean, the slaves helped her from the water and toweled her dry. The girl brushed her hair until it shone like molten silver, while the old woman anointed her with the spiceflower perfume of the Dothraki plains, a dab on each wrist, behind her ears, on the tips of her breasts, and one last one, cool on her lips, down there between her legs. They dressed her in the wisps that Magister Illyrio had sent up, and then the gown, a deep plum silk to bring out the violet in her eyes. The girl slid the gilded sandals onto her feet, while the old woman fixed the tiara in her hair, and slid golden bracelets crusted with amethysts around her wrists. Last of all came the collar, a heavy golden torc emblazoned with ancient Valyrian glyphs. "Now you look all a princess," the girl said breathlessly when they were done. Dany glanced at her image in the silvered looking glass that Illyrio had so thoughtfully provided. A princess, she thought, but she remembered what the girl had said, how Khal Drogo was so rich even his slaves wore golden collars. She felt a sudden chill, and gooseflesh pimpled her bare arms.

And read the Jonsa's claim again:

kjkkljjl;k;,

Yeah, it sure sounds like Daenerys grew up as a spoiled, entitled heir-apparent princess rather than a Targaryen in-exile and constantly on the run (since birth) from Robert Baratheon's assassins.

Jon is my favourite character and growing up with the stigma of bastardy would have some scars that would probably never heal, yet he had one thing Dany never had growing up -- a home where he could grow up with (relative) stability. Dany grew up homeless. In exile. Jon did have a home and in that home, he received an education and a childhood. In Jon's situation, I think it does get a bit complicated because that stability comes with the price of his true identity and the steep consequences of bastardy. It's likewise true that Jon's place in that home was never 100% secure -- it's all at the mercy of the Stark in charge.

However, as long as Ned was there, Jon was there, and having one place for that long to call home was something Dany never really had, with siblings who loved her as much as Robb and Arya and Bran and Rickon loved Jon, with an education and games in a place she could feel more or less safe... The closest experience Dany has to that is when she lives with Ser Willem Darry in the house with the red door where Dany remembers she had her own room. However, right after his death, Dany and Viserys are thrown out and must return to wandering, begging, and struggling as homeless children in exile (and on the run) again whereupon Viserys becomes increasingly more resentful and abusive of Dany due to these situations.

And we learn all of this -- about Dany being sold to Drogo, about how Dany and Viserys grew up, about the house with the red door -- in Dany's first chapter. It's hard to believe people who make such claims about Dany like in the above screenshot did an honest-to-god read of even the first couple of chapters for characters who aren't Sansa Stark if they're trying to claim Dany accepted marriage to Khal Drogo to gain power. And grew up as a princess who believed she was heir to everything?! They're not even vaguely remembering episodes of the show because this doesn't even apply to Show!Dany either????

And power. Antis really hate Dany having power and she gets accused of getting power "too easily". Dany needs to be giving all that power to Sansa honestly, who still has no leadership arc, no experience with real world matters, and is two years younger because Sansa apparently has "queen foreshadowing" and said that one line about making people love her (that means she'll be a good queen, you guys). However, I'm still not sure what is easy about anything Dany has done between AGOT-ADWD, including conquering some of the oldest cities in this universe without dragons and using forces under her own command at age 14-15? But that's probably easier than planning Super Feast in the Vale, sure. I'd like to return to the original spirit of the screencap: Jon and Dany. This poster dislikes Jonerys and was invested in the Pol!Jon. Since this individual is inviting us to compare Jon and Dany, I think there is a comparison to be made. I don't think it's "Dany the entitled heir vs. Jon the dutiful follower" (you know, Jon, the guy who had childhood dreams of growing up to be a glorious conqueror). Rather, I think it is in how both Jon and Dany initially view the wildlings and Dothraki (savage, barbarian) and then how those views change (understanding, empathy, connection, friends/family). It's not only Jon who had to live with his "enemy" and understand his "enemy" (the enemy who is not actually the enemy), Dany was literally sold to the enemy and forced into that position. She either had to accept this new role or die. That is how Dany survives, by adapting to this new life, reaching into her capacity to connect, and understand. This is a key feature of her book 1 story.

But whenever such stans are confronted with passages stating otherwise to their claims...

I hate those Daenerys is going to sacrifice herself/die theories so much it genuinely makes me tweak and I have never been the type of person to get upset at all over fiction or any type of media, but this irks me so bad because not only is Daenerys my absolute favorite character of all time, it’s upsetting how the female character is always the one who has to die for others sakes and never achieve anything for herself. Yes, it’s her destiny as AA to fight the Others, but that doesn’t mean that she has to die doing it. Like, seriously, after we got F&B and saw how many Targaryen women struggled with misogyny and being passed over for the throne, it feels upsetting to me if the one who is supposed to break the wheel will never have a chance to do so. I do love Bran but I do not see him fit to sit on the throne, not to mention how young he is and will be at the series end unless George does a massive timeskip, and after the whole world is in shambles after the Long Night, who is more fitting to sit on the throne and help mend things and lead the people forward? A well experienced ruler and fighter who will bring along a new age of change, or a child with no such experience? Perhaps it’s just me being salty but I just really want the best for my favorite character who I believe deserves to have her shot at having a home and being able to rule and change the world together with the other characters. Especially after the end of GoT, which no I don’t ever believe that George will go that route, but with how everything happened in the show, it looked like Westeros was a completely and utter mess and there was nobody capable left to pick up the pieces, Bran’s ascension to the throne was so random too and didn’t even feel satisfying or like a good conclusion (not that those two incapable idiots could ever produce a satisfying ending, but yeah). What are your thoughts on this? I just feel sad that fellow Dany fans are literally enthusiastically waiting for her death in the upcoming books as if there isn’t a better destiny for her :( The female character who managed to rise to power and become a ruler in her own right dying or giving that up to the men in order to “settle down” leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and doesn’t look like the subversion George has done with her character at all.

I definitely agree with you anon, Dany dying/sacrificing herself really doesn't seem to fit with her story. Yes, Dany certainly would be willing to die to save the world, but that doesn't seem to be where GRRM is writing her.

Dany's story is saturated with life; which is pretty ironic since she's been called "Daughter of Death". She's closely tied to themes of fertility (mother of dragons, helloo), rebirth (Azor Ahai, entering the pyre), and survival/endurance.

Dany's story shares very little similarities to characters who have been set up for death. For example, Robb. Dany may share some superficial similarities to Robb, but the signs of Robb's impending death are not shared at all. GRRM always sets up the deaths of his major characters from their introductions. That hasn't happened with Dany; if anything we see a set up to her surviving.

You're so right about how people are foaming at the mouth for Dany's death. Her dying after everything she's been through and everything she stands for is just...no. It feels so gross and has some really concerning undertones.

The woman who actually fought for change and made a massive upheaval in the status quo, who genuinely cares for all her people, who understands the responsibility of ruling, who demonstrates incredible wisdom, who only wants to make the world better dying for the sake of the story is just wow.

what do you think about the theory that dany will revive the great empire of the dawn and become the new amethyst empress, finally marry for love and have the children she always wanted, and bring forth a new age of magic and dragon repopulation? especially if grrm envisioned bran doing his own thing in westeros it would be full circle with house targaryen making their way back to their ancestral land of essos but this time with the wheel being broken. if this is the ending we get i will never complain about anything asoiaf related ever again, i just want dany to have her happy ending.

I will say this is the first time I'm hearing about Dany and the Empire of the Dawn, but I love it!

I've always been a little unhappy with how a lot of the Dany taking the IT theories require her to abandon her antislavery campaign in Essos. Like she may finish in Salver's Bay and Volantis, but Essos is still full of slaves. Sure, the ripple effect of Dany could lead to uprisings all over Essos, but I've always liked the idea of her being involved in the entire process to some extent. Dany reestablishing the Empire of the Dawn would put her right in the center of Essos.

Plus I hate how often the trope of magic disappearing is used. So Dany reestablishing magic and bringing back dragons has always been an idea I love dearly. Magic is a very important part of ASOIAF, it's part of the balance of that universe. So it coming back definitely is important, and the fact that it's Dany doing it is awesome.

So yeah, anon, I really like this theory!

Endgame Speculation For Daenerys Targaryen

Daenerys’ arc throughout the novels is heavily rooted in learning the ins and outs of governance and restructing a government to benefit the people. This training would make her the ideal leader to guide Westeros in recovering after the second long night.