Hadestown Analysis - Tumblr Posts
I think about Hades a lot.
Shocking, I know, but I don't mean specifically Hades within the story of Hadestown. I think a lot about what must have happened prior to the story to produce a character like that. What happened even before his relationship with Persephone that he would have such an unhealthy attachment style?
Obviously the whole being eaten alive by his father didn't do him any favors, but most of the rest of his siblings shared in that with him. It's a part of his damage, but it's not everything.
I think that a lot of Hades' insecurities come from feeling like he can be replaced or discarded. Growing up, his whole world was comprised of four other people, his siblings, but suddenly they all get thrown out (thrown up?) into the wider world, and there's this new person, a new sibling. They fight a war and win it, and eventually it comes time where the three brothers draw lots to decide who rules over what part of the world.
We know how this goes. Zeus gets the sky, Poseidon gets the seas, and Hades gets the underworld. He's sent down there alone. This man probably can't remember a time in his life where he hasn't had at least his sisters around, but none of them go with him. They choose to remain up top with Zeus, who has essentially slotted himself into the position as top god that should have belonged to Hades by birthright. He is the oldest son of Cronus, after all.
That must have been emotionally devastating. He feels like he's been abandoned by his family, replaced by his youngest brother, and his consolation prize is a kingdom of rocks.
Like, yeah, he's still totally in the wrong. I'm not trying to justify his actions in the least, but it's kind of impressive he managed to hold it together so long before kicking off his villain story.
I just want so badly to be able to See a production where Eurydice sings “everybody sipping ambrosia wine in a gold mine in hadestown” and orpheus looks her right in the eye without missing a chord on his guitar and says “everybody hungry everybody tired everybody slaves by the sweat of his brow the wage is nothing and the work is hard it’s a graveyard in hadestown.” And then they sing the chorus together!
In re toxic masculinity in Hadestown, I listened to the Broadway soundtrack on a roadtrip with my dad recently and he pointed out that Hades is always referred to as a man, and Orpheus is always “son” or “boy,” and that “it’s like you have to behave in this violent misogynist way to be considered an adult.” I should experience art with my dad more he’s very intelligent.
I have Thoughts and Opinions about “Flowers” (Hadestown). Main opinion I suppose is that a very defensible interpretation of “Flowers” is as a rape scene and I feel that the implications of that for Eurydice’s themes of constrained choice and coercion should get talked about more. Much hay has been made of the fact that Persephone is not raped in Hadestown. Not as much has been said about the fact that Eurydice probably is.
Like. “Did Eurydice make a choice? did she make a mistake? was there an alternative? was it a betrayal?” well not if he drugged her, no, which “Lily* white and poppy** red / I trembled as he laid me out / you won’t feel a thing, he said / when you go down / nothing gonna wake you now /…is anybody listening / I open my mouth and nothing comes out / nothing, nothing gonna wake me now” seems to imply. *(death) **(opiates)
Definitely she made a choice, in some capacity, in that she took a ticket from Hades’ hand and she got on a train and she signed her name on the dotted line. But “Flowers” makes me really unclear on how much she decided to do out of desperation or pragmatism or naïvete, and how much she was high and possibly unconscious for, even before the Lethe-esque brain fog effect of the Underworld goes to work on her. How early did the transition from “seductive offer” to “captivity and violence” happen, because the answer might be really really early. Like, immediately after Hey Little Songbird early. Before she gets on the train early.
I need to do my HadesTown meta on masculinity as portrayed by Hades vs. Orpheus but I still can’t get the fact out of my head that Eurydice is Hades’ real parallel in the relationship as Persephone is to Orpheus and the fact that the characters themselves don’t recognize this in the narrative makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills
Hi maggie! I was wondering what you thought about Hades and Persephone in Hadestown
Hmm, I’m not really sure what to say because I’m not sure if there’s a general positive or negative consensus about them? I mean, Hades is clearly the primary antagonist, indeed the villain of the piece.
I was quite surprised to see that Hades and Persephone were the more popular pairing on AO3 for the Hadestown fandom, though I imagine there’s some overlap there with crossover or just the general Hades/Persephone archetype’s popularity. I only say that because for me, Orpheus and Eurydice were by far the more emotionally powerful couple, hence my surprise at the balance of fic.
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that moment, when hades sings orpheus’ song, and creates a flower for persephone? watching the show live for the first time, it made me sick. it felt like…like he’d stolen this moment from orpheus and eurydice. like appropriation, like the heart of it was gone, he took everything from orpheus and eurydice. their future, their joy, and now, this melody. this moment that was magical and wonderful and theirs, now imitated. stripped of its magic. it disgusted me.
which is weird because while just listening to the soundtrack and hearing him sing, i thought it was sweet, that hades sang. that he remembered the song of his love. but seeing it just…made me mad.
i do think pretty much every modern interpretation of the Hades and Persephone myth is just... flat out wrong? like. while it is supposed to be tragic and horrific that this happened its also. like Hades is effectively death right? (yes i know thanatos was death* but he was often not mentioned bc he was fairly minor. its complicated bc greek mythology was a living evolving religion that was very dependent on location and everything so multiple gods could represent the same things but. not the point) so Hades, *death* (literally, a lot of epithets are about how he gets everybody eventually iirc), takes away a young girl from her mother, violently and quickly, right. and then winter happens due to her grief and also as a bargaining chip etc etc you guys know. anyway the point is. while the greek gods were powerful figures they were also like. metaphors? for the forces they represented. and not like... Characters You Are Supposed To Agree With (though, obviously, dementer was portrayed as being right for the most part!). that being said a lot of the focus during hellenistic (using this term vaguely here sorry) greece was on persephones ascent from the underworld, and not like, this weird modern focus on her descent and stay in the underworld you see in most adaptations, so, my point is, everybody is wrong and the next person to talk about real life religions living or dead like theyre fandoms is getting the lever pulled on them
*one time my dude was just literally Hades btw but also we dont really know that much comparatively to some others bc the majority of greece didnt talk about some the cthonic gods as much as the others out of fear–related example but i belieeve? there was/is some debate regarding whether persephones name is like... her actual name and not an epithet to use when people didnt want to say her actual name, and this was bc her and dementers cult (or possibly mycenaean greece for different reasons? cant remember rn) was very secretive and so if persephone wasnt her name then we dont. know what it is but do not quote me on this bit
Hi! So I am very new to Hadestown and I am watching the bootleg. I really love the dynamic between Hades and Persephone, but there is one thing that kind of rub me in not so good way, is Hey Little Song Bird implied that Hades and Eurydice slept together? I am seeing a lot of interpretation and it genuinely confused the hell out of me asdfghk
Hi! Well, tbf it's a tricky question, but the short answer is that Hadestown suggests that something might have happened behind closed doors. The rest is up to audience and actor's interpretation.
For example, Anaïs Mitchell often mentions in Working On a Song that in early workshops she often went with the idea that Hades cheats and pretty regularly even though these affairs mean nothing to him since the only person he loves is Persephone. It even had a cut song:
In her early drafts/productions of Hadestown you can often get the vibe that from her point of view it doesn't matter as much because they are eternal beings and love each other since the world began so does it even matter for them?
However, by NYTW this story line was cut apart from Persephone's line in How Long:
"I don't mind if you look at other girls, now and then"
"The girl means nothing to me"
"I know"
Plus the staging in NYTW Papers and Hades' protective peacock behavior with Eurydice around Orpheus in the scene also gives you a thought that they might have had an affair? Plus some bits like the fact that she has a line in Why We Build a Wall and her words "But don't you see? That's different with me!" - "Different than who? They thought they were different too!" Could also be interpreted as Hades suggesting some special conditions by granting her a role of a romantic interest. Whether the interest is real or not and did he use it or not is again up to your interpretation of NYTW Hades. He is more of a morally dubious guy (as all ht Hades are) so it's more up to you to either believe he would have cheated to put Persephone in her place or would just use showing off Eurydice as a brutal way to get Persephone's interest.
As for Broadway, I think it's still suggested and you can find profs in the lyrics but I think that they are what they are - suggestive and leave you to interprete it whichever way you feel comfortable. I think the biggest suggestion remains in Flowers with the line:
'I trembled when he laid me out
"You won’t feel a thing," he said, "when you go down"'
Which kinda can have a death meaning and sex meaning, tbf someone could have written a good article on how those topics are connected in Hadestown. So here, again chose one of the two or both.
But again, Broadway also changed the lyrics in How Long and the whole staging in Papers so it's less suggestive.
My personal opinion based on Broadway production is that it all depends on how the actor plays it and whether you believe this particular Hades is the type to sleep with Eurydice to get Persephone's attention and prove he is still attractive or he is more of a person who doesn't care about having the affair and his only goal is to get Persephone to react somehow by composing such a messed up hurtful plan. Personally, I prefer the second option maybe because I'm a pussy or maybe because I see Hades (whom I mostly base on Patrick Page ht Broadway previews) like a person who is desperate to get Persephone's attention in such a radical way like a cat pushing objects from your table to see your reaction. He wants to be stopped, he wants any reaction from Persephone. He even touches her by the shoulder before going into the office like "Look!! Look! I'm absolutely totally leaving! To cheat! See! Hey come on! I'll even take off my tie to show that I'm serious! Don't you wanna stop me???". Seems kinda way too extra to me. Like he could have just gotten to the office after parading a pretty girl in front of her and it would be understood that it's for an affair. But he takes so much time to make sure she understands that he can find himself someone when all he wants is for her to come back to him with open arms. I'm not sure he has the guts to actually damage his relationship to an irreversible degree (considering Broadway Hades is never stated as a cheater before the Eurydice sub-plot). Like it's one thing to take a mortal before her time and parade her in front of your wife (because what is a mortal life after all?) as a "replacement" and it's the other way to actually cheat on her and deal with the fact that she might never forgive him again if it is a deal-breaker for her considering they seem to be true to each other for all these years.
One interesting thing to note here as well is how Hades actors play the reaction to Persephone's line in How Long:
"He has the kind if love that you and I once had"
Because his instant reaction is "OH SHIT once had?? Does she think I don't love her still?? OH SHIT I BROUGHT THE GIRL THIS IS WHY SHE MIGHT THINK THAT", so he answers to that:
"The girl means nothing to me!"
Depending on the actor and she show the line sounds either scared, confused, angry, undignified etc. So it's once again up to you to interprete why he reacts this way: is he angry because she suggested he would actually cheated on her? Is he angry because she called him out on that affair? Is he confused and scared because she thinks he doesn't love her anymore because of his foolish decision to tease her in such a cruel way?
That's up to you.
P.S. I think one of the most interesting studies of the subject and Hades' character that I've read in a fic for that matter was the Songbird chapter of Winters Nigh and Summers O're. You can check it out, but I will warn you that it's probably one of the heaviest chapters of that fic in the emotional sense and it has explicit parts (don't worry, nothing bad happens to Eurydice. Well...apart from dying, I guess), so check out the warnings if you decide to read it.
Myth
Ovid is the only acceptable version of the Orpheus and Eurydice myth. End of story (I’m serious though most others are ‘love is stupid he deserved it because love is dumb’). I’m posting it here instead of my main blog because… I get the vibe Anaïs read this version. Something about how lyrical it is, how we get the full song he signs to hades and Persephone and how fucking soul crushing it is? She must have read this one.
ALSO
There is a separate myth “the death of Orpheus” which, is absolutely. My heart cannot take it.
He’s the first to say they found each other in the end 😭
equally fucked up alternate version of the orpheus and eurydice myth where i successfully bring the great love of my life back from the dead without looking back but the unresolved trauma of their death leaves me so scared of losing them a second time that i can't bear to look at them ever again
listen. listen. you know i love me a good orpheus and eurydice and that means obviously i love hadestown okay? like we've established that?? okay listen. i love love love the tragedy of it all and my god he looks back because he cannot bear to exist without her for a second longer and i could go on about this forever. but!! I have a different thing to say and it is specifically about hadestown in particular and not other versions of the myths
persephone is complicit!! in hadestown, persephone is complicit in all of it! she complains about how her husband has been changing things and she complains about how he makes others dependent on him for money when he is the one who chose to give money that value in the first place (why do we build the wall? to keep out the enemy, which is poverty. how do we keep out the enemy which is poverty? we build a wall and get paid for it) (actually do they get paid? anyway, another time), but!! she doesn't actually do anything to help the workers out of hadestown either. "well but plaudius that's not her job, she's doing what she can from her position" why yes! that's correct! i do not fault her for not being an underground railroad or something on this literal underground railroad! the thing is, though, when she's smuggling sunlight and rain water and all of that into hadestown and reintroducing herself to the workers (somebody ask me about that sometime, i have Thoughts), she explicitly sells it. she's not just distributing it, she's not a robin hood giving the wealth back to the people, she's a diamond company selling what is incredibly common and freely available. she's aloysius o'hare from o'hare air in the lorax (don't fucking come for me i watched that movie once and thought it diverged too much from the book) selling fucking AIR. "you want stars? i got a skyful. put a quarter in the slot, you'll get an eyeful. you want the moon? yeah i got her too, she's right here waiting in my pay-per-view"
persephone is explicitly profiting off of this! she claims she doesn't like how hades is running the underworld but she is too comfortable in her life to try to begin any real change in her society
My favorite part of theorizing about Hadestown is the realization that even IF Orpheus and Eurydice made it out of hell together… what’re the chances that Orpheus would continue working on different songs to fix the world, and forget about Eurydice again?
Hey Little Songbird really did establish Orpheus’ biggest problem.
Eurydice will give him her hand.
Orpheus will give her his hand-to-mouth.
He’s not trying to be toxic. But he’s a dramatic idealist who can’t live in the now.
Alright everyone, I saw a post recently talking about Hadestown costuming, specifically in reference to the removal of layers of clothing representing the characters revealing more of themselves as people.
I want to talk about an aspect of the costume design as well, but instead of being about the bigger themes of the costuming overall, I'm going to focus in on one aspect of one costume because I find it very interesting.
I present to you Mr Hades in his Act II attire:
There's a lot that's been discussed about his costume both in terms of aesthetics and what it represents from a character and storytelling aspect. I'm not looking at the costume as a whole though. Specifically, I want to talk about the bands he's wearing around his arms because they are far more interesting as a design choice than I think most people realize.
Those bands are called sleeve garters. Yes, garters weren't just for holding stockings up on your legs or to be used as a part of modern wedding traditions. In the past, men would wear specifically designed garters on their shirtsleeves.
Nothing strange about that. Was quite common back in the latter part of the 19th century and into the early 20th century because ready made shirts were all made with a single extra long sleeve length. Men wore the garters to let them customize the sleeve length to fit when wearing the shirt under a jacket and so that the shirt cuffs wouldn't become dirty from daily use.
Okay. It's normal. Why is it worth focusing on then?
Because the sleeve garter was normal for the working class. The wealthy would get their shirts tailored and have the sleeves adjusted to fit them. Not wearing sleeve garters was another show--if a slightly more subtle one--of wealth.
We know Hades is wealthy. The lyrics make that very clear to the audience, so why is he wearing them?
Like what they do with the tattoo, it manages to call back to the idea of Hades having built himself up. Those sleeve garters are something a working man would wear, and for someone who is as conspicuous about his wealth and power as Hades is, it's an interesting choice. He dresses in fine suits and doesn't have to worry about getting his hands dirty anymore now that he has workers, but he still chooses to wear sleeve garters. Personally, I like to think he has a number of little behaviors that call back to that time when he wasn't the king of silver and of gold. Things he isn't even consciously aware of but hasn't managed to shake because he did know what it was like to have nothing.
The truth is probably that he wears them because aesthetic. It looks appropriately old-timey and also just looks good as a part of the whole ensemble, especially with the snakeskin design on them. Excellent costuming choice there. However, if that was an intentional choice, I have nothing but absolute love for whoever had that idea.