Hotd Thoughts - Tumblr Posts

I wonder if on some level, Rhaenyra’s resentment of Alicent is because she feels that her mother is being replaced. Not just in the sense that Alicent is marrying her father and quite literally replacing her a Queen, but also in the sense that Alicent is able to provide Viserys with heirs, something that Aemma had a notoriously difficult time trying to do. Obviously Rhaenyra is already upset when the betrothal is announced, because her best friend is marrying her father so soon after her mother’s death, but I think the fact that Alicent gives Viserys a son so soon just puts salt in the wound. From the time Rhaenyra was born up until her mother’s death, her parents attempts to have a heir, and the loss of children and pregnancies, would have been almost a constant in her life. I don’t think she really got used to the pain and grief it would have caused her mother, but I think she accepted the idea that if her parents ever did have a son, it would be the result of blood and sacrifice and years upon years of trying and failing. Then when her mother dies along with the heir her father was so set on having, it’s kind of a double blow to her, because she has not only lost her mother and newborn brother, but the one thing her mother had been trying to do for Rhaenyra’s whole life, give Viserys an heir, she hadn’t been able to do, even in death. So I think to Rhaenyra it might have seemed like her mothers sacrifice and death were all for nothing, and obviously this is going to make her pretty upset. Then Viserys married her best friend and relatively soon after (I’m not quite sure about the timings,) she gives him a son, and while I don’t want to disparage Alicent’s suffering, especially when it comes to having her children so young, I think that to Rhaenyra, the fact that her mother suffered years of miscarriages, stillbirths, and dead babies, and then died in childbirth and still couldn’t give Viserys a son, only for his new wife to give him a son pretty quickly, might seem almost like a mockery of her mother. I don’t think Rhaenyra blamed Alicent for having a son, I just think that she’s hurt that after all her mother went through, her best friend does a “better” (better in the eyes of the realm,) job of being Queen than she did. I don’t this this was at the forefront of her mind when she thought about Alicent, but it think it would have been somewhere in the back of her mind and would subtly have helped contribute to her resentment and the souring of her and Alicents relationship.

This isn’t to say that Alicent didn’t suffer at all, because obviously marriage to a man literally old enough to be her father, years of marital rape, and having children when she’s still almost a child is horrible and traumatic. This is just a look into some of the things that might have gone on in Rhaenyra’s mind at the time and how it relates to her relationship with Alicent.

All in all not my favorite episode, but I'm glad we got to see Vermithor again, and that Silverwing finally made an appearance. Doesn't matter how much they screw up the characters, the dragons are always done perfectly. Also, we finally got a Tessarion mention!

So I’ve just learned that people are saying that the fact that Daemon wasn’t there while Rhaenyra was giving birth to Visenya means that he wasn’t there when Aegon and Viserys were born either.

This is just baffling to me because the first half of episode 10 was absolutely full of proof that he actually was there for both.

When Jace asks where Daemon is, he seems angry that he isn’t with Rhaenyra. If Daemon hadn’t been present with Aegon and Viserys, then Jace would presumably be used to him not being with Rhaenyra while she’s in labor. But that’s not what we see. What we see is Jace being pissed that Daemon is not there. Now I’m sure that there will be people who say “Oh he just expects Daemon to be there since he’s Rhaenyra’s husband” but Rhaenyra’s first husband, Laenor, wasn’t at Joffrey’s birth and probably (although this isn’t confirmed) wasn’t at Jace or Luke’s birth either, so Jace wouldn’t expect Daemon to be there unless he had been there in the past.

Rhaenyra also seems to expect him to be there, seeing as she literally calls out for him. If there’s one thing we know about Rhaenyra, it’s that she’s proud. If she doesn’t think her husband will be with her while she gives birth, then she’s not going to scream for him for all the castle to hear. But she does. At this point she’s lived in Dragonstone for 6 years, so she probably knows that her screams will echo through the whole castle. The fact that she calls out for Daemon, even though she knows that literally everyone in the castle will hear her, means that she expects him to heed her call, and expectation she would not have if he hadn’t been with her for their previous children.

Even the Small Council seems a bit surprised that he’s not with Rhaenyra. Every time she screams, they kinda look at him like they think he’s about to leave and go to her. Obviously most of them would not have been on Dragonstone when Aegon and Viserys were born, but they still seem to have heard rumors about Daemon staying with Rhaenyra, because they clearly expect him to react in some way. Remember, in HotD/GoT its pretty uncommon for the father have anything to do with the birth, much less be there, so the fact that they seem to expect it from Daemon suggests his presence at Aegon and Viserys' births.

Obviously, Daemon is not present for Visenya's birth (my analysis of that is here) but using that to say that he's a bad father and husband, and then trying to justify it by saying that he wasn't there when his sons were born (when all evidence points to the contrary,) is doing his character a disservice. I'm not saying that him leaving Rhaenyra alone while she was in labor was the right thing to do, but I think people need to remember that the circumstances during which Visenya was born are extremely different from the circumstances when Aegon and Viserys are born. Stop inventing things to demonize Daemon. We get enough of that from Ryan Condal.

house of the dragon au → dylan wang as king aegon ii targaryen

"Thrones are won with swords, not quills. Spill blood, not ink."

House of Dragons

All I can think about - Henry Cavill as Daemon Targaryen. It would have been so awesome. Not that Matt Smith is not doing a great job- he is. But still 

picture credit-  google

I was just thinking about this yesterday that how even their names are related - just a shift of single letter. 

Their personalities are so similar. They both would fiercely fight for the people they consider their family, rest can go hang. Of course, there are differences too- considering their upbringing and some innate qualities. I find both their characters fascinating. 

Daemon Stans: Daemon is so much STRONGER than Aemond! Aemond is just a bad copy and pasted version of Daemon! 😡😌

Meanwile, GRRM: Daemon and Aemond are two sides of the same coin, they're meant to be the yin and yang, the ultimate rivals. Daemon isn't stronger than Aemond like Aemond isn't stronger than Daemon - their strength matches each other, which is why their battle is so epic - no one knows who will win.

In fact, the beauty of the world and stories created by George R. R. Martin is that there is no such things as absolutes. No evil side or good side- not absolutely. They are all trying to survive in a shitty world and for most of them, their first priority is their family, then their lands. 

You can see that many of them have regrets and have at some point made questionable choices. There is clash of ideals, clash of goals and the circumstances that rule them. 

There is no true black and white- all of them lying between different shades of grey. Few more nearer to black and few more nearer to white. 

I keep seeing people being like "this is why Rhaenyra and Daemon are actually shitty and you should be on team green" and "this is why Alicent and Aegon are actually shitty and you should be on team black" like guys this is Game of Thrones everybody's kind of shitty and I love them anyway.

Thoughts?

And people say Rhaenyra didn't have any empathy. There's a reason Daemon did what he did without telling her. Show Rhaenyra reminds me of Marie Antoinette , appointed to something at a young age relishing in the privilege of it and then hated by the people for what her husband done because, she obviously doesn't know how to run a fucking kingdom simply because, daddy spent years talking out his ass and not teaching her.

Blood & Cheese is going to be such an awful scene to get through. Even GRRM said that it is too dark for television. I hate Daemon and Mysaria with every fiber in my body. They decided to go after the most innocent and vulnerable. Daemon didn’t say anything to Rhaenyra about it because he knew she wouldn’t allow it. I love Helaena and her children. They don’t deserve any of this.

Art in order - Renju Art and Doug Wheatley

Gotta love the greens on reddit , once again.

This whole thread has killed me

Viserys was the real problem all along

some people genuinely think the war would have been avoided if viserys married laena. as if it would have solved much of anything at all.

you think corlys velaryon is seriously going to be okay with his grandson getting overlooked for rhaenyra, any more than otto was? this is a man for whom legacy is everything. he definitely wouldn't have gone the same route as otto, but he wouldnt have just taken that lying down.

you think daemon wouldnt have still tried to trap rhaenyra in marriage? and perhaps succeeded this time with no otto around to bother being all up in their business

and then if that happens you've got the issue of daemon being the future king consort and how the lords thought that was bad enough even when rhaenyra was an adult woman with heirs from a previous marriage. let alone her being a 19 yr old girl instead in this scenario. they encouraged viserys to name her in the first place because they didnt want daemon anywhere near the throne. literally no one but viserys and rhaenyra likes or trusts daemon. you think corlys wouldnt have seen him as an even more genuine threat to laena and her children than otto did alicent and hers... with daemons child set to be rhaenyras heir?

the war was set in stone from the moment viserys decided to remarry at all. literally all anyone else did was shape the way it happened.

Firstly, i agree with your take

It is nuanced and complex but! He was also the full grown adult man who was honor bound to protect her since she was a young teen(even younger in the book i think) but her ignorance of her power is annoying and she shouldn't have wielded it that way towards Cole either way so eh, complicated stuff

Idk i may be wrong but i think the power struggle between them is about balanced because of their history and how she grew up with Cole and relied on him for protection

hear me out. hear me out. maybe the dynamic between rhaenyra and criston was complex and what happened between them does not fit perfectly into a victim/perpetrator narrative and people should stop approaching it as though it does.... just an idea.

I need a luce and aemond edit with this omg

I love the psychology behind daemon tbh even tho hes a shitty man sometimes

Does Daemon wants to fuck Viserys??? And that's all ryan could come up with? The reason of Daemon's actions it's because he has a boner for Vissy..?

The thing is, I don't remember exactly what Ryan said but he didn't say much on it so his reasoning is a bit Open To Interpretation. The way I understood it is that a lot of what motivates Daemon's desire for Rhaenyra specifically, particularly once she's a bit older and he's been pushed much further down the line of succession by Alicent's children, is that he does, on some level, desire Viserys, and views her primarily as an extension of Viserys, and her interest in him as Viserys wanting him and valuing him more than he thinks Viserys does. It's the motivation for his pursuit of Rhaenyra that changes, not all his other actions wrt things like the Stepstones or Laena or his daughters or the succession, or his general bloodthirstiness.

And truthfully, I think that's an incredibly interesting tract for Daemon as a character. I know people weren't into it because it seemed kind of out of the blue and the Daemyra shippers were up in arms (no shade, nothing worse than a writer seeming to belittle your ship when you're really into it, I get y'all), but as someone who's, like, not really into Daemon at all except for the little moments that Matt Smith tries to add in where he can, it's very fascinating. Daemon's mother Alyssa died when he was three, and we don't know how present, if at all, Baelon was in the upbringing of his sons, giving Westeros customs and gender norms, not to mention that Baelon became heir to the throne and thus Prince of Dragonstone when Daemon was only ten. So the person Daemon was likely closest to, the person he looked to almost as a parental figure, was Viserys. Viserys occupies a role not just as an elder sibling to Daemon, but also as a parent, in a way, and as they're the only siblings they have, they were likely incredibly close. The book doesn't say anything about it, but in the show, Daemon's also written to be bisexual,, and given that Targaryens aren't raised to socialize with their siblings as siblings, but rather as prospective romantic and sexual partners, Daemon likely viewed Viserys as much through a sexual lens as a parental/brotherly one, made only worse by the knowledge that, if Daemon had been born a woman, he likely would have been chosen as Viserys's wife. So you've got this situation of someone who can feel same sex attraction without any of the hurdles of, like, incest is wrong, with a lot of issues of transference and some psychosexual hangups due lost and distant parental figures, and it does make sense that at some point Daemon loved Viserys as more than a brother, desired him as something more than a brother, and that Viserys became the one thing he couldn't have.

We also know that Daemon has a severe chip on his shoulder about the fact that, specifically, Viserys does not appear to want him around. He says as much in episode one, he views his marriage to Rhea not as a way to shore up alliances, but as a way for Viserys to get him out of his hair, that Viserys doesn't want him around him but all the way in the Vale with someone else (and also someone lesser, as if Daemon isn't worthy of Viserys, or any Valyrian bride, given that he's also a clear Targ supremacist on top of all his other stuff). He views any promotions he gets as further evidence that Viserys doesn't want him, that Viserys is shunting him off to the Treasury or to the City Watch because he doesn't want him, as he said, by his side. He doesn't realize that he's not the Hand because the Hand is a political job for a politician who can think politically and understand the politics of the realm, and that he has the political acumen of a blueberry bush, he views it as Viserys not wanting him around, not wanting him as his right hand, not trusting him or wanting him at all. As much as he wants the crown and thinks he should be king because he's better at it and it's his right according to Westerosi law while Viserys only has a daughter, he also just wants Viserys to want him back, in any way, and he feels like he's consistently getting proof that Viserys doesn't. It's hinted at that, even beyond the stunt on Dragonstone to get Viserys's attention, a lot of Daemon's military exploits in the Stepstones are motivated by wanting Viserys to notice him, to acknowledge him, and the reason he gets mad about Viserys's attempt to offer aid is because he views it as Viserys saying "you're not good enough". It's why he doesn't have any issue in giving up his role as King of the Narrow Sea and why he immediately goes into "poor little meow meow forehead touchy touch" mode the second Viserys welcomes him back with open arms. It's why, as he grows bitter and more jaded with his age, he lashes out primarily at Viserys on Driftmark, it's why he's so visibly discomfited by Viserys ailments in episode 8 and why he's so immediately willing to help him in spite of all their history in the throne room, it's probably why he's so immediately certain Viserys was killed despite the man actively rotting before his very eyes, because he can't logically comprehend a world without Viserys in it.

And so with all of that, the idea that Daemon saw Rhaenyra as the socially acceptable option, a Targaryen woman who also clearly wants him back, and who can offer him power to boot (along with his admittedly gross preference for young girls my God Daemon) and immediately latched onto her as the next best thing works. He sees Rhaenyra as someone that he could have been, Viserys's heir and someone Viserys loves and accepts and wants around him. But he also sees her as a version of Viserys, a more malleable version of Viserys and still someone that has a part of Viserys in her, and again, most crucially, a version/extension of Viserys that wants him back. That probably wants him more, who is the one actively seeking him out this time and desiring him, when Viserys would have never done, and never, in fact, did that. And once he and Rhaenyra are older, and once it seems his relationship with Viserys is just permanently damaged, then why not go for the next best thing, someone who's basically a part of Viserys's body and who reciprocates what he's offering, who might actually feel it more. It's not necessarily that there are no reasons for him to want/be in love with Rhaenyra on her own merits, those merits are likely there (I'm not a Daemyra shipper but I'm trying to be objective right now), it's that a huge part of WHY he was willing to go there, and continue going there, and was even interested at all, was because of loving Viserys and wanting Viserys to love him back.

A Daemon that wants Viserys, that lusted for and loved and pined after Viserys in a way that was never going to be returned is a boy wanting acceptance and love from a father or mother, a man who wants to stay by his brother's side, a lover who knows that it's always going to be one sided. And that's actually a facet of the character that can be extraordinarily interesting when merged with all the other fun potential for him and the kind of man he is.

People who say that House Hightower destroyed the Targaryen dynasty are kind of silly because House Strong is right there. Like House Strong really apparently wanted to get in on the action and just helped bring down a monarchy.

Harwin straight-up had illegitimate children with the crown princess. And yes I know it takes two to tango but Harwin could have stopped it, though as we see in episode 6 he is more than down with this arrangement. The fact that the children just kept coming out looking nothing like her and he still kept seeing Rhaenyra. After Jace he should have taken a step back, I guess he wanted to see if things would change with Luke? Clearly not. The rumors about Rhaenyra's children just tarnished her reputation and put a target on their children's backs. This was him supporting Rhaenyra too and all he was doing was making things worse.

Larys is a whole nother level. The man flipped sides more than a pancake on a stove. The man was plotting against everyone, I swear. He was undermining anyone who wasn't outright helping him. He even got some personal hits in by helping force Rhaenyra out of King's Landing and then poisoning Aegon. This man was made for chaos and he happened to be born in the right time for it.

Lyonel is rarely talked about but it needs to be said, if Viserys neglected the growing problems so did Lyonel. He watched for years as his son, the commander of the city watch, got close to the princess and her having children who looked suspiciously like him yet said nothing. It's not until Criston Cole mentions it that he confronts Harwin. Like just because no one has had the guts to say doesn't mean no one was thinking it. He said it himself Harwin is committing treason that can result in the exile/death of Harwin, Rhaenyra, and the children but again why say it this late?

Just when you thought all the Strongs were dead after Aemond's attack on Harrenhal, enter Alys Rivers. Whether you believe that she cast a spell on Aemond or not, she followed her family tradition of messing with the Targaryens. Intentionally or not, she led Aemond to Daemon and was there to witness them kill each other. Single handily, she killed two Taragryens as well as two dragons: Vhagar and Caraxes. Then she ran off with baby Aemondcito to vibe at her vacant family home.

Say what you will about the Hightowers, I have never seen such a collected group effort by one family (unintentional or not) to cause so much chaos to another family. They were on opposing sides at some points yet still through every step were petty and screwed over the Targaryens. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. This was mostly me highlighting how weirdly funny it is how involved House Strong was in taking down the Targaryens before they themselves went extinct as a house. No hate to anyone just weird how connected they are with everything.

Idk if it’s just me but I feel like some of the retorts or quips in HOTD don’t go as hard as the writers think they did because they usually a) don’t logically follow the conversation being had or b) completely overlook a crucial detail that makes the “snappy” comeback fall apart

This. This perfectly explains what the main issues with season 2 is.

Ryan Condal choosing the necessary plotlines that HOTD must include:

Nettles ✗

Maelor ✗

The Greens loving one another ✗

Rhaenyra being cruel ✗

A whole bunch of other important shit ✗

Tyland Lannister being a sperm donor for a polygamous woman and her concubines (which slay, but priorities?) ✓

Soaps made specially for each Targaryen 

Aegon, the horny spoiled one who soon will be king. ( because don’t the Westeros love dicks more than brains?)

Rhaenys, Cassandra of HOTD universe. (Coz no one believe her even though she was almost always right.)

Daemon, the serial widower

Rhaenyra, the one whose cunt was spoiled ( according to Criston Cole who is not the person who doesn’t get the right to spoil her cunt anymore.)

Harwin, the papa bear (The soap was microwaved warm, to tell the truth.)

Viserys, the man whose perish is nigh. (We all know this, Jon Snow, it was foreshadowing in the trailer.)

Laenor, the gay gentleman ( or another title A ray of sunshine who eloped with his Romeo.)