Stephanie Brown Critical - Tumblr Posts

Actually, now that I've calmed down, you know what I actually, sincerely want, and probably won't get, in a non-venting way?

I want to Tim to be allowed to admit that he's been avoiding Stephanie because he knew that she would make this whole thing harder for him. I want him to be allowed to be afraid that she was going to, first, resent him for wanting someone who wasn't her and, second, mock him relentlessly for what he wants and for being afraid of telling her like she does with everything else in his life.

Figuring out your sexuality is hard enough as it is without the knowledge that a so-called "friend" is going to go out of their way to make an ass out of you in your moment of vulnerability because they think it's funny. And don't give me the bullshit that Steph wouldn't do that. Even if she wouldn't -- which she would, because you know she can be extremely careless with other people's feelings on a good day and a petty, mean-spirited little monster when she's hurt, not to mention very prone to do things that she regrets but can't take back -- it's fair for Tim to believe that she would given how she's treated him in the past, and how she's treated other people in the past as well.

We haven't gotten a lot of Tim's relationship with Bernard yet, but what we've gotten has been very focused on how safe Tim feels with him, how supported he feels, how secure he feels.

He has more than enough damn good reasons to feel none of those things around Stephanie.

He should get to own it.

(And he shouldn't have to apologize for it either!)

THESE are the REASONS WHY people DON’T like TIMSTEPH, or even STEPHANIE in-general! Written because of the TOXICITY over the topic I’ve been seeing FAR too much of.

That isn’t even actually Robin she’s so willing to hurt. She just thinks it is because of how unreasonable she got she got over her own false accusation*

I REALLY just want to say this stuff. Not out of malice or hate for the character, because I think hating fictional characters is absurd, but just because so many people have been abusing others over the internet, and group bullying folks, even as well as toxic environments for everyone.

So I am saying this for CLARITY, and to hopefully chill thing out, so people can understand why people don’t like it in the first place.

When you try to think of reasons you may not like a ship, or at least note of why others may not like a ship. To simplify it, normally winds up being some form of it being unhealthy/toxic, or not very written.

To me I think that’s a really understandable thing. I don’t actively ship anything anymore, because that’s not me. I’m not even remotely a romantic kind of guy, or a sexual kind of guy. I find my love in friendships and family, and that’s who I give all my affection to, at least when I’m not being too shy to give them a hug or compliment.

So the way I look at this particular ship is pretty simple. I’ve had friends that love and admire TimSteph, and others that think it’s not very good.

And despite not being a romantic kind of guy, I have written ship fics, normally in the name of pleasing others, and to admit it, and be fully open and honest, I’ve written more TimSteph fics than anything else. I have no reason to be bias against TimSteph. Anything you could find involving TimKon, which is angry TimSteph folks archenemy going off the way they seem to keep acting, is me just being casual about it or pleasing friends. I’m not honestly a big shipper of it, I just casually enjoy it because of the sweet moments those characters have had. I’m pretty sure I actually enjoyed Steph being in the new Y.J. at first, until I reread Robin, and changed my opinion cause I made attention to it more.

So, to get to the point, as an essentially non-bias guy who’s well-known for anaylizing and reviewing comics as straight forward and logical as I can. It’s really obvious why people don’t like it.

It’s not well-written or healthy.

The reason, I’m making this post though. Is the adamancy of a lot of it’s toxic member having too loud of voices and attacking the concept that maybe Steph isn’t a healthy person to date, and the writing of the whole thing is poor.

This isn’t a piece that’s about how bad Steph is even if it focuses on it quite a bit, because I don’t think in the beginning she was a bad character. I’m just being critical of the writing. Characters doing bad things doesn’t equal bad characters so I don’t mind. But it’s all in the context of explaining why people don’t like it, and how really bad the writing could be involving even the premise of the relationship to begin with.

(Warnings of mentions of sexual harassment, sexual assault, emotional abuse, physical abuse, as well as a bunch of really bad writing, and a note that this post hasn’t been grammar checked, so their may be typos or grammar mistakes that I will fix in a bit.)

Seguir leyendo

Me, before reading the comics: no one is the villain in this relationship, they both did good and bad things to each other, they’re better as exes turned best friends

Me, after reading the comics: Tim had every right and reason to break up with Steph, and I hope they stay far far away from each other

How did Steph become Robin and how did she become fired? I know it was her starting a gang war but how exactly?

I had this whole thing typed up last night with citations and everything and then the post editor glitched and I lost the whole thing. :/ So, take 2:

Around Robin issues #124-125, Tim's father Jack discovered that he was Robin and went to Wayne Manor with a gun to threaten Bruce over the whole thing. To keep the peace, Tim volunteered to step down as Robin and promised his dad that he'd give that life up forever.

Shortly thereafter (Issue 126), Steph was stalking Tim at his school because if she doesn't see him every day she immediately assumes that he's cheating on her. She arrived at just the wrong moment to witness his classmate Darla plant a kiss on him, took that as proof that he was cheating, and ran away without bothering to wait the ten seconds it would've taken to see Tim push Darla away and tell her, again, that he has a girlfriend, sending her off in tears.

Steph went straight home, made herself a Robin costume, then went to the Bat-cave and told Bruce she would be the new Robin now. And Bruce agreed to let her try.

It's never actually defined what Stephanie's motivation for this is, BTW. We're left to pick it up from context clues -- like the fact that she was perfectly happy being Spoiler and had zero thoughts or plans in this direction until she saw Tim "cheating," and the fact that she then immediately ghosted Tim for what's implied to be weeks, potentially months, with no explanation.

It is, however, implied that Bruce might be going along with it all as a -- quoting Alfred -- "scheme to lure Tim back." Which, yeah, is not great.

So Bruce sets Steph up with a non-homemade Robin costume and a stupid new haircut (it only looks passable when Damion Scott draws it, everyone else needs to stop trying) and gives her this ultimatum.

Remember this for a later post, this one got too long. This arrangement of theirs lasts for a grand total of two full issues.

Seriously. Steph is hired as Robin at the end of issue #126, and she's fired at the end of #128. She appears in, I think, one or two issues of Cass's Batgirl, maybe the same months' corresponding Detective Comics and Batman issues (I don't really care to look them up to double-check), and a single B-plot appearance in an issue of the contemporary Teen Titans mostly dedicated to Superboy calling her a backstabbing wannabe poser and telling her she'll never be welcome at the Tower because she's not the real Robin.

That is the only time those two have ever spoken, BTW. Which is why a lot of people have been annoyed that they're suddenly being written as buddy-buds in the recent continuity for no reason.

Anyway, the point is, Steph's Robin career lasted a grand total of 3 months out-of-universe and forty-nine days in-universe, which we know because she started calling her diary-based narration her "War Journal" and counting the days there. This was recently re-confirmed in 2021's Robins miniseries.

Which brings us to how it ended, which is where I need to correct you slightly, anon. The gang war wasn't the cause of Steph's firing, it was the result.

The cause was an encounter with a powered-armor-wearing assassin called Scarab, who'd been hired by an old enemy of Tim's to kill black-haired, blue-eyed boys in Gotham in the hopes that she would eventually kill Robin. Encountering Steph with Bruce convinced Scarab that she must've killed her target ("resulting in the need for a replacement") and she was preparing to leave Gotham when Bruce & Steph tracked her down.

Bruce suited up in some power armor of his own and went down to fight Scarab, giving Steph strict orders to stay in the Bat-plane and not touch anything. Over the course of the resulting fight -- in which Bruce does seem to struggle a bit but never loses his cool and never seems to be in more danger than he would be in other fights -- he repeats these orders to Stephanie no less than five times.

Stephanie does not listen.

Stephanie rushes into the building, continues to disobey orders once she's there, and immediately gets herself taken hostage. Her life is threatened by the bad guy and Bruce lets Scarab go to save her.

That incident is what gets Stephanie fired.

Interestingly, despite what Bruce said about this being "the precise moment [Stephanie's] out," he actually waits until his injuries from the fight have recovered to drop the bomb, and it's implied that he stretches that out longer than he usually would -- out to a full three weeks -- to give her time to stew. Which I find very interesting, I'll talk about it more in the later post.

The gang war comes in because he gives her some privacy in the Batcave to collect her personal belongings before she goes, including her personal files off the Bat-computer. While doing this, she decides it's a great idea to steal one of Bruce's, quote, "contingency plans" to "wipe out all crime in Gotham... if worst came to worst." This particular plan involved bringing all of the Gotham crime families under Batman's control, and Steph figured that if she could "set that in motion, show she could help him" then he might "take her back."

Unfortunately, one of the "Big Secrets" that she wasn't privy to as a result of being on probation was the fact that Matches Malone, the guy on whom the entire plan hinged, was actually one of Batman's secret identities, so when he didn't show up to the meeting she arranged... boom. A bunch of mafia heads ended up dead, and that led to retaliation from their subordinates. Cue War Games.

Bruce is an asshole to everyone but sometimes there’s variety in the ways he’s an asshole to them, and I think how he treats Stephanie is at least in part because she reminds him of himself in ways he doesn’t want to think about.

Here’s what I mean when I say that Steph’s run as Batgirl is manipulative

It’s also a big part of why the idea that it’s a “redemption” for the character falls flat to me: 

Throughout the series, there’s a recurring trend where, whenever Steph’s backstory or past history is brought up, things that happened to her are given specific details, often so they can be called out and addressed, while things that she, Stephanie, actually did are left vague and open to generous interpretation. 

Here’s a great example: 

Barbara, here, calls out her own actions in specific – “I used your ‘autopsy’ photos to stop the last girl who wanted to be Batgirl.” But Stephanie gets only the vague, “The last time you tried to be helpful, you accidentally brought this city to its knees.”

If these two things were written with equal specificity and weight, they’d read either: 

“The last time you tried being helpful, you accidentally brought Gotham to its knees. Or did that slip your well-intentioned mind? Your fate was a warning to everyone who came after. ‘This is what happens when you try to play hero.’” 

or

“The last time you tried being ‘helpful,’ over a hundred people died in a gang war that you caused through sheer ignorance. But I suppose that was ‘well-intentioned’ and not just a selfish desire to stay Robin, hm? In fact, you’re such a bad example that I used your ‘autopsy’ photos to stop the last girl who wanted to be Batgirl.”

Instead, Barbara gets a specific shock-value citation that paints her as ruthless, controlling and violating, while Stephanie gets the incredibly generous “tried to be helpful, but had an unfortunate accident.”

Likewise, you’ll notice how this – and all other mentions of the gang war, and of Black Mask, for the entire series – are focused exclusively on Stephanie’s suffering. How she was hurt, how she died, and how she was violated after her death. Zero mention is ever made of the dozens, if not hundreds, who died or suffered as the result of her actions. 

It’s not a redemption story if you won’t acknowledge what you specifically did wrong.

Here’s another one that’s more spread-out. 

This is the only way that Steph’s actions at the end of Robin are ever described in this series – “I betrayed his trust as a promise to the former Batman.”

Whereas Tim gets repeatedly called out for “demanding that she stop being Spoiler.” Before this point there’s not one, but two specific flashbacks to that very moment, and in the issue after this one Steph gets the line, “And the last time we met, you kicked me.”

Again, if these moments shared specificity, at some point Tim would be allowed to shoot back with, “You took out a hit on me” or “Yeah I kicked you, in self-defense after you stalked me and broke into my house.”

Instead, Steph gets the vague, “I betrayed him, but it totally wasn’t my fault! I’m not to blame for anything, ever, at all.” while Tim gets painted as a jerk who needs to beg her forgiveness for his specific crimes against her. 

And this happens throughout the entire book. It’s honestly just gross, deliberately written to manipulate new readers into coddling Steph as an innocent widdle victim of circumstance that everyone in the whole world is mean to for no reason. :(  

Which is why this series reads as so skeezy to me. It’s written very much the way that abusers speak to friends about their past relationships, using specifics to damn their victims while leaving their own actions vague and sympathetic. 

That’s not a redemption story. Redemption is specific, and it requires you to face the people you’ve hurt with honesty. Stephanie never does that, because this series has no interest in anything but her precious little ego. 

Blech.

Is Stephanie Brown Abusive?

Oh boy, is this a kettle of worms I’m not sure I want to open up, but sometimes… I see that word thrown around. “Stephanie is abusive.” And then, the inevitable rebuttal: “Stephanie isn’t abusive.” 

But like, neither side really comes to the party with receipts, generally. And I totally get why, I do, Robin was a long running comic series, and you either got an icky feeling overtime or you didn’t… Even if Stephanie’s behavior was off-putting, it’s difficult to remember why, or when, it’s mostly a lot of small things that build up.

And in case the way I’m phrasing that is unclear… I am in camp Stephanie Brown is abusive. Of course, Stephanie is a traumatized abused teenage girl with a teenager’s capacity for decision making and emotional control; I don’t think Stephanie is doomed to have patterns of abusive behavior her whole life, she can grow out of it, but Stephanie does express abusive behavior throughout the Robin run. 

And so I am here… with the receipts… to back up that claim. And maybe clear up for people WHY some people are really uncomfortable with Stephanie Brown, especially her relationship with Tim. The things I do for you people. 

I do want to make it clear, I am not here to attack people who like Steph, or who like T*mSteph. Tim and Steph have a lot of very cute moments together, and there’s a lot to like about Stephanie. But I think we can all better understand each other if we know where people are coming from. That said, I’m putting my analysis under a cut, because tumblr is bad with tagging, and if you’re not in the headspace to look at what might be considered “anti” content, I don’t want to accidentally make you. 

Seguir leyendo

I don't have much experience with comics, but one thing that keeps popping up in fic and shocking me is how MEAN people write Stephanie. In a way where it's like they almost don't realize she's being mean, if that makes sense? For example I was reading this fic where Tim and Steph were having this emotional reunion after he thought she was dead, and she called him "boy blunder." And continued to call him that throughout the fic. Am I crazy or is that an awful thing to call someone? I guess they were going for an inside joke, but to me it just seems so cruel, like every time she talks to Tim she's implying he's made a mistake. Of all the plays on "boy wonder" I've seen, that sounds the meanest. Is this something she calls him when they're together in the comics, do you know?

Oh she's absolutely called him Boy Blunder in the comics, along with things like Boy Wonderbread and Boy Virgin once when she was poking fun at him freaking out over her pregnancy. It's true in fics and it's true in canon: a lot of what people try to pass off as Steph being "snarky" or "quirky" is just her being flat-out mean, but never getting called out on it.

It's everywhere. And you're right that people don't realize it -- in fandom or the comics. She turned up in Damian's Robin book recently for exactly one line of dialogue and that line was a judgemental insult -- "Your weird, gross pizza is over there, Damian." She only has a grand total of three lines in the action portion of "The Elephant in the Room" and two out of those are just her insulting Tim (while the third one might as well be "Ooooo, what does THIS button do?"). Hell. half of the so-called "jokes" in Batgirls are just Steph being a catty, judgemental brat while the narrator goes "lol isn't she funny?"

And it's not even a recent thing. I haven't been able to make a post about this because I'm on a freelancing deadline IRL but someday I'm going to go on a massive rant about Jordanna Spence, the poor civilian girl inserted into Steph's supporting cast as Batgirl whose only narrative purpose is to provide one of The Other Girls for Steph to insult and bully constantly for the crime of wearing pink and being in a sorority. (And sometimes she's accidentally racist about it, which is...""fun"")

Steph will spend storyarcs hanging out with like, Damian or Kara or Klarion, and they're all treated like these Big Meaningful Bonding Experiences, but all Steph does the entire time is insult them and make judgemental comments about everything they say or do. And yet every single one ends the story thinking she's the greatest person who ever lived and lining up to suck her dick with everyone else in the comic.

It's honestly messed up, but here's the thing: it's absolutely not a Steph-exclusive issue. You know who else I've heard these exact criticisms leveled at? Bella Swan. And Hermione Granger, to a lesser extent only because she's the author self-insert but not the point-of-view character. That's part of why She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named's adult novels are so much worse, because they are told from the PoV of the self-insert character and thus we're constantly barraged with her judgemental opinions about men, trans women, poor people, people with heavy accents, any woman who doesn't perform femininity to the author's exacting standards and, of course, fat people.

It's a symptom of the self-insert character, is I guess what I'm saying. Which of course means that it also gets applied to literally everyone else in the Batfamily on occasion too -- the boys and Bruce especially but also like, I'm sorry, I don't think Cass suddenly learning to curse and be casually mean is funny, I think it's a sign of lazy writing.

The difference being of course that the guys get written by a lot of different people, many of whom are interested in them as characters instead of just as vehicles to project themselves onto. Several others (especially in fandom) do just use them as vehicles (Damian hasn't been given to a good writer in over a decade and god knows Jason got more than his fair share of Very Special Boy treatment during the New 52), but it's not the only part in their canon.

Steph, though? Since the end of War Games forward, she's been nothing but a self-insert character designed for straight white women to project themselves onto. Which is sexist and sucks and obviously can't be called "the character's fault" or anything, but knowing all of that doesn't make her mean-spirited bullying any easier to put up with if you're not one of the people getting off on the power fantasy of being the bully.