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It really grinds my gears when people try to insist that Jon never really loved Dany because he undeniably canonically loved her even after she torched King’s Landing. This isn’t me reading between the lines or theorizing. It’s in the script of episode 8 which is publicly available.

We all know season 8 was shit and hope the books do things dramatically differently. And I personally think that Emilia and Kitt had poor on-screen chemistry, so they struggled to convey love. But it is unquestionably canon that Jon and Dany loved each other to the end. Jon feels he has nothing left worth living for once she’s dead. He really truly did not want the throne. He was ready to die right along with her. He was going to let Drogon kill him. Honestly it could’ve been an incredibly tragic scene had it been better written and had Jon and Dany shared more screen time with better actor chemistry. Always a Jonerys truther here

Banter,flirting,and teasing ain't just all there is to chemistry because all a good romance really-truly needs is bonding,mutual admiration,mutual respect and mutual trust with natural,meaningful development and progression of significance.Not to mention all those shallow insignificant interactions including cheap unconvincing cliché "tension" like "staring" and 'heavy breathing",excessive unnecessary corny,cheesy,sickening,icky "fluff" filler scenes of no substance but to waste screen time are no match for compelling emotionally intimate interactions and scenes in which the characters are vulnerable revealing the human side of themselves without their masks and armor others rarely have the privilege to see due to duty and propriety,which makes for even more compelling characters individually,not just only to develop a relationship.And fluff is only satisfying when the relationship is well developed and has naturally progressed,not forced and contrived out of thin air for fanservice most didn't ask for.

Crackshippers tend invent moments/what doesn't exist and tend to be biased with their rose-colored glasses, cherry-picking for confirmation bias, confusing a dynamic they love/prefer like the majority with chemistry, etc, but conveniently dismiss canon ships actually having what they deluded themselves into believing their crackship has, using every and any excuse they find under the sun to not be convinced, to justify their opposition. Anyone who says got jonerys had no development or progression is confirming they are just biased or ignorant, against the ships for typical unwarranted, unfounded xyz "reasons". There's only so much actors can do with what they've been given. Directing tricks such as heavy breathing, staring, prolonged eye contact, grinning widely and other common, cheap tactics are often used to overcompensate for mediocre chemistry between actors. Writing and dialogue can also make it seem like there's chemistry when there's none. But bad writing, poor written dynamics, bad dialogue, bad directing, and bad editing can also dampen the chemistry they have.

It makes sense Jon "Brooding" Snow would be apprehensive, reluctant and hesitate to become close Daenerys any more than necessary because of what Aerys did to Brandon who provoked the traumatised king and Rickard who tried to save his son. So Jon relationship with Daenerys is practically forbidden. Jon is the type to suppress any feelings that could affect his dedication to his duty. Even he tells Ser Davos there's no time for this after Davos notes Jon's attraction to Daenerys "I saw you looking at her good heart" when Jon said he thinks Daenerys has a good heart after she apologized for her father's atrocities inflicted on his grandfather and uncle.

Jonsa crackshippers who conveniently dismiss the obvious fact that Jon had to fill in Ned's and Robb's shoes out of duty to family and platonic love for them as the eldest of House Stark in favor of conflating their bias towards crackship jonsa is often overlooked. With the imminent threat of the undead army looming over their heads and the possibility of losing lives, Jon seemingly needed to prevent the tragedy and pain if he were to fall in love with Dany and one or both of them were fall in the war. And it doesn't help that Jon was so desperate for acceptance and approval from the North to prove he's worthy of being their king to compensate for his bastardy.

It's strange how antis and detractors of jonerys overlook Jon being younger and less experienced when he was with Ygritte, not to mention the fact that Jon and Dany are canonically dutiful and basically workaholics. There was never any flirting or banter between Daenerys and Khal Drogo, and Ygritte was the only one "flirting/bantering" by belittling, demeaning, and insulting Jon who was always serious and brooding never once really reciprocated especially in that regard anyway. (There's even speculation in the books that jonerys would flirt using taxes.) Those were simpler times compared to S7 when winter was near, so Jon was understandably more broody and pensive + irritable, apprehensive, weary and burdened by the potential impending doom. I suppose Jon's relationship with Ygritte is like how Drogo was Dany's first love despite the complicated abusive power imbalance and Stockholm Syndrome, considering Ygritte canonically coerces Jon who is forced to bed her to survive.

More affection, intimacy, flirting, and banter (mainly from Jon/on his side) could've been incorporated into their relationship if there was enough time allocated in that type of show the opposite of Bridgeton, but people would still complain and criticize with double standards regardless about how it's supposedly out of character and out of place in the context of GoT (as if the entirety of GoT and characters were OOC from the beginning that there are different stories with different versions of the characters who aren't really themselves) due to their bias like they did with the dragon flight and waterfall scene in the North during S8. They would've damned the pairing either way as done with Dany regularly and likely supported their desired crackships in the same place because antis tend to hate Dany for having all of what they covet for their favs.

Kit and Emilia have chemistry in real life, behind the scenes, in interviews and even in photoshoots of both their characters and themselves where it was so palpable even long before Jon and Dany met. Even Kit said "as my best friend, I think she's extraordinary", and Emilia said Kit was like putting on your favorite jacket. People even call them platonic soulmates besides Emilia and Jason. Both have explained they quickly became close friends before GoT even premiered. They were hanging out ever since throughout the show, and they finally got to act in some scenes together as they explicitly made clear they wanted. So how could they not have chemistry? It just didn't translate well on-screen because they so called tools, much to be desired dialogue from a script with some of the right ideas but could've been written and executed better likely with clever directing, the actors were given to work with didn't support it.

And for how ever much flack some give to Emilia's acting, she was definitely a better actor than Kit who's acting was unconvincing to them. Emilia carried most of their scenes. Emilia is friends with his girl Rose Leslie (Ygritte) who Emilia was also seen spending time with alongside Kit, and both said it was weird acting like that and kissing each other likely because their friendship and relationship with Rose. So it's understandable if they felt uncomfortable from those intimate interactions. This situation reminds me of Paul Wesley and Candice King in TVD who had chemistry as friends but not really as romantic partners because Paul said it was weird doing those scenes with his best friend's wife.

I’m still kind of boggled when people say Jon and Dany had no chemistry.  Like, yeah, their entire story was rushed as hell, and their chemistry could have been better.  But to say there was no chemistry I don’t understand.  People often compare them to Jon and Ygritte but I don’t feel that’s a very fair comparison, for several reasons (those earlier seasons are the show’s best, there’s no time compression, all Martin’s material to work with, K and R being a thing irl, I mean come on yes there’s a difference in chemistry).

I will say Jon and Dany’s chemistry took a dive in S8, but everyone’s entire characterizations took dives.  The only character (that anyone cared about) who managed to have any consistency was Theon.  That’s it.  Everyone else’s characters took hits, but none moreso than Jon and Dany themselves.   Even individually their characters were off-kilter.

It just bothers me when people nitpick at Jon and Dany’s relationship itself, rather than blame the real issue, that being the compressed time and the writing.  Then they go dragging out the show’s earlier seasons, pointing out how those relationships were better.  Of course they were, everything was better back then.  It’s like pulling out a cold hamburger from last week, and pointing out how much better the burger was a week ago when it was fresh.  Jfc.

"sansa didn’t trust daenerys bc she was a stranger" is such a bullshit. sansa didn’t know most of the people in the north personally "oh but they from the north" yeah boltons were too. "dhe was foreign, not really westerosi, raised and lived among barbarian people" oh good thing westerosi like littlefinger, lannisters etc were so well behaved and kind. sansa also didn’t have nothing really against wildings "oh but jon trusted them" so just like he trusted daenerys?

the only problem sansa had with daenerys was that she couldn't control her bc she was lower in the hierarchy and also it meant she looses any control over the north she had. that's it.

“Jonerys has no foreshadows, no parallels, nothing other than them being Targaryens”

Yes, that’s an actual thing Jonsa shipper said to me, talking about all their Oh sO CoNviNcing metas and “foreshadows”. So HERE WE GO, ALL THE ONES I AM AWARE OF AND I HAVE SOME NEW ONES THAT I HAVEN’T SEEN BROUGHT UP SO STAY WITH ME TILL THE END.

1. Both bring their sigil animals, believed to be extinct, back to the game. Jon is the one to convince Ned to save the pups, and he found Ghost himself. Dany literally brought dragons back.

2. Both start as secondary characters, underastimated and both gradually came to being leaders and one of the most iconic characters in both the show and TV as a whole.

3. Both are the underestimated sibling. Jon as a bastard, Dany as a female. Both looked down upon by their family members. 

4. Despite being the undestimated one, Jon is said to have more of North in him than any of his siblings. Tyrion was the one who said that to him, I believe. And Dany ends up being the dragon, so more of a Targaryen or a Valyrian in a way than Viserys.

5. Their first loves died in their arms.

6. What’s also interesting about that ^ is that Drogo dies because of the witch and Dany in books is sure that was the first betrayal she had the vision about, and Ygritte is killed by Olly, who later betrays Jon.  Ygritte in books isn’t killed by Olly, but still by men who end up betraying him. And again, both Ygritte and Drogo were savages, both killed by people who the savages have hurt

7. Both are believed to be The Prince Who Was Promised. They are the two main theories, for sure. And both kinda fit, but not entirely. But when you think about them as whole…They fit much more.

“I believe you have a role to play as does another. The King in The North - Jon Snow.“

-

8. Both taken hostage by savages, who they end up leading. Both are attached to those savages, and are accepted by them, despite being outsiders. 

“You were the first one to bring Dothraki to Westeros, he was the first to make allies of Wildlings and Northmen.”

9. Both start their journey in the first book, Dany with Dothraki, Jon with the Night’s Watch, which both have a bad reputation, as rapers and thiefs and such. And they both end up as their leaders, both trying to stop the flaws of their packs. Jon trying to help the Wildlings, Dany not allowing them to rape, or steal from in example Qarth, before the shit there goes down, that didn’t go down in the books if i remember correctly. 

“She protects people from monsters, just as you do.”

Both face many setbacks and become increasingly frustrated with their roles as leaders.

11. Both feel so lonely and sad at first. Jon after seeing what NW really was, and Dany does not need to be even explained I think.

10. Both, at some point are given the chance to literally make their dreams come true. Jon being proposed by Stannis to be legitimized as a Stark, and Dany being offered all the ships and money she needed to go to Westeros. And both decline because of morals. Jon keeps his vows, Dany stays to free the slaves.

11.  “One to bed, one to dread, one to love.” Jon is Dany’s third love interest, Daario was more of a bed partner (”to bed”) and Drogo was someone Dany was at first sooo scared of (”one to dread”).

12.  “ A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness… . mother of dragons, bride of fire … “ Blue flowers obvioulsy symbolizes Jon, that’s certain. And who is at the Wall???   

13. Ok so Dany being called “Moon of my live”, moon is strongly associated with her bc of that, “Dragons come from the moon” thing, like think about a moon in GoT and tell me you don’t think of Dany, and being the only female with silver hair, that being her most iconic trait. ( “ The old woman washed her long, silver-pale hair and gently combed out the snags, all in silence. The girl scrubbed her back and her feet and told her how lucky she was.”)  and this:  “The light of the half-moon turned Vals honey-blond hair a pale silver and left her cheeks as white as snow. She took a deep breath. The air tastes sweet.”

MOON TURNED HER HAIR SILVER.

So three things that can be considered to be about  Dany in two sentences. And the thing about Jon not smelling the sweetness, which some antis point out, is obvious. He is the sweetness.

14.  “Sometimes she would close her eyes and dream of him, but it was never Jorah Mormont she dreamed of; her lover was always younger and more comely, though his face remained a shifting shadow.” - Dany, ASOS

Targaryens are prone to having prophetic dreams, Dany has them as well.

“For the rest of his life –however long that might be– he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name.” - Jon, AGOT

“The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain.” - Melisandre, ADWD

15. “Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold … “ - ADWD

“Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. As the moon rose above the grasslands, Dany slipped at last into a restless sleep.“  - ADWD

Are wolves in Essos a common sight???? 

16. “…  but the Usurper’s dogs had murdered her brother’s son when he was still a babe at the breast. If he had lived, I might have married him. “ - ADWD

“The best way to make alliances is with marriage.“

“If he does rule the North, he’d make a valuable ally.“

17. “He might as well wish for another thousand men, and maybe a dragon or three.” 

GRRM clearly making us think about Dany, like come on, possibly helping Jon.

18. Both were sneaked away in order to keep them save from those who would harm them - baby Targaryens (Jon from South to North and Dany West to East)

19. “ Even with Ygritte sleeping beside him, he felt alone. “         “Her captain slept beside her, yet she was alone. “

Find me another example of someone in GoT feeling alone while sleeping next to their lover, for reasons. Also both mentioned during times when they had to choose. Jon between duty and Ygritte, Dany between duty (marrying Hizdahr) and the man she wanted - Daario.

20.  Both have Mormonts as mentors, Jon has Jeor and Dany has Jorah. Also, Jon wields the Mormont family sword Longclaw which once belonged to Jorah. That’s less powerful, but the only Mormonts we really know until Lyanna are with them, helping them, showing them the way.

21. “A Targeryen alone in the world is a terrible thing” guess what two Targaryens met and made an alliance and found love oops

22. Both were seperated from their animal for a long time, until they came back and helped to kill some bitches.

23. Both are seen as somewhat godly, Jon coming back from the dead, Dany being the Unburnt which gave us this visual parallel:

24. Both share some moral rules, Dany being more a dragon ofc, but still like:

the last one didn’t go unnoticed by Jon either, like WORD TO WORD

25. These two iconic scenes, that even Kit mentioned being weirdly reflective of each other

26.  “Well, of course, the two outlying ones — the things going on north of the Wall, and then there is Targaryen on the other continent with her dragons — are of course the ice and fire of the title, “A Song of Ice and Fire.” ‘ - George RR Martin.

27. “If destiny has brought Daenerys Targaryen back to our shores, it has also made Jon Snow King in The North.”

28. “These are two people in love…” Kit Harington

29.  “She didn’t feel she was missing anything [in her love life]. It took someone coming and forcing her mind to be changed,” - Emilia Clarke

30.  “He walks into the room and doesn’t expect to see such a beautiful young woman of similar age to him,” - Kit again. It was important enough then to make that point.

32.  “[Martin] did sort of say things that made it clear that the meeting and the convergence of Jon and Dany were sort of the point of the series.” - Alex Taylor  in an interview with Deadline

33. “However, as she meets and becomes more familiar with Jon Snow (Kit Harington), Dany’s outfits appear lined with fur, a staple of Northern attire that feels symbolic of her growing affection for the King in the North. “There is obviously some chemistry at work!” Clapton said about the relationship between Dany and Jon” 

34. “I think when she sees him return on the back of Coldhand’s horse, that’s a big moment for her in terms of the way she feels about him.”

 “It’s kind of hard for her at this point for, I think, not to look at this guy and not realize that this is not like the other boys”

   - D.B Weiss,  Game of Thrones: Season 7 Episode 6: Inside the Episode

35. “I don’t think either one of them really knew exactly how powerful their feeling were towards each other until these moments. Just the notion of falling for someone, that involves weakness. That’s not something a queen does, but she feels that happening and he feels it happening for her. I think both of them are on kinda unfamiliar ground and especially because it’s with an equal,” 

- David Benioff,  Game of Thrones: Season 7 Episode 6: Inside the Episode

36. Wars of the Roses were an inspiration for ASOIAF, Aand that war ended with Henry VII and Elizabeth of York joining the roses. Henry was an heir in staright line, that had lived his entire life in exile, Yorks were inspiration for Starks. So yup Dany and Jon work p e r f e c t l y. The war they will end might be The Great War, or the War for the Iron Throne. 

Henry - the red rose Elizabeth - the white rose

37. And if the book version of HofU visions does not convince you how about the show version, where Dany almost touches the Iron Throne, but turns to go beyond the Wall instead, where she finds her lover and a child . SOUNDS FAMILIAR? Plus, just before she touches the Iron Throne , doesn’t she hear a dragon cry that makes her turn?

ADD ALL THE OTHER VISUAL PARALLELS THAT I DO NOT HAVE THE GIFS OF, SORRY AND HOW THE SHOW CREW NAMED THEIR SCENES “A DATE WITH DESTINY” AND “UNION OF ICE AND FIRE"

Yeah, why do we even ship that.

credits to @midqueenally for all the parallel gifs

Will Dany love Jon more than the throne? She loves him and he loves her. Many ants think she will love the throne most. Thats how hey get their evil Dany theories to work. However, most people would be willing to give up on an ambition if the price was grievous harm to a loved one. Everyone hates Stannis for doing the reverse. Which way will Dany go? She wants the throne but she doesn't really 'love' the throne does she?

Dany will absolutely love Jon more than the throne because Dany doesn’t “love” the throne at all. I would argue that Dany is only seeking the throne out of a sense of duty and responsibility both to her birthright/family name and the common people. She has been raised on the belief that what Robert’s Rebellion did to her family is a great injustice, one that she must right in order to redeem her family name. Even once she learns that her father was an evil man and that his death was perhaps justified, she still believes (and I would agree) that the fates of the rest of her family were an injustice/murder. She similarly believes that the common people are suffering and oppressed under the current system (which they are) and seeks to liberate them by “breaking the wheel.” So her quest for the throne has nothing to do with personal desires or gratification and everything to do with what she believes is right. 

We can see this both in her character and choices–both book and show versions–and in the things Dany thinks about in the books. Across the books, the word “throne” is mentioned in her POV chapters a total of 46 times. This includes Viserys’s dialogue about this subject, of course, as well as any time anyone else has mentioned this to her. But “common people,” “my people,” and “your people” (when others talk to her about her people) are mentioned 72 times. Most tellingly, “home” is mentioned 68 times, and “love” a whopping 128 times. Dany is not after the throne out of some misguided plan for power, wealth, or glory. She never thinks about any of these things. She’s more interested in helping others and possessing the power to do that consistently. 

Even Tyrion knew that Dany cared more about family than power. He said as much to F!Aegon:

“I told you, I know our little queen. Let her hear that her brother Rhaegar’s murdered son is still alive, that this brave boy has raised the dragon standard of her forebears in Westeros once more, that he is fighting a desperate war to avenge his father and reclaim the Iron Throne for House Targaryen, hard-pressed on every side … and she will fly to your side fast as wind and water can carry her. You are the last of her line, and this Mother of Dragons, this breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer. The girl who drowned the slaver cities in blood rather than leave strangers to their chains can scarcely abandon her own brother’s son in his hour of peril. And when she reaches Westeros and meets you for the first time, you will meet as equals, man and woman, not queen and supplicant. How can she help but love you then, I ask you?” –Tyrion VI ADWD

There’s no F!Aegon in the show, but Jon is actually Rhaegar’s son, a man fighting a desperate war who Dany has met in Westeros, eventually (in my opinion) come to respect as an equal, and loved as a man, just as Tyrion predicted. I don’t think Dany will care more about her claim than about Jon himself.

Even in the show, Dany has twice now (both in the HOTU vision and when she lands at Dragonstone) walked right by the throne instead of touching it, called instead to a higher purpose. I think this literal action is also symbolic of her evolving priorities. 

Further, we can see that she desires a family and love far more than she does a throne. Even Daario, whom she admits to herself doesn’t really love her, but more the idea of her as queen, is enough to make her question her entire journey.

“I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Dany thought … but he had not asked it, and never would. Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved.“ –Daenerys VII ADWD 

If she would have given up her throne for Daario, can you imagine how much more willing she would be for Jon?

What she wants more than anything is the safety and freedom of her people, but as far as her presonal goals are concerned? What she wants most is a family and someone who genuinely loves her. Remember, she has literally never had this with anyone. Her mother died birthing her, leaving Viserys as her only family, and we all know the reality of that relationship. Dany has been, for all intents and purpose, alone for her entire life. For Jon to love her, really love her, and want a family and a simple life with her, would be much more important to her than any throne. Her own “dream” is for something like that:

“In her dream they were man and wife, simple folk who lived a simple life in a tall stone house with a red door. In her dream he had been kissing her all over–her mouth, her neck, her breasts.” –Daenerys II ADWD

It’s worth noting that Jon has similar dreams:

“When the dreams took him, he found himself back home once more, splashing in the hot pools beneath a huge white weirdwood that had his father’s face. Ygritte was with him, laughing at him, shedding her skins until she was naked as her name day, trying to kiss him.” –Jon VI ASOS

They both dream of a simple life where they are loved and happy, home at last.

So no. Dany won’t love the throne more than Jon. And if they both live until the end, I really do believe that their happiest endgame wouldn’t be ruling at all. Like I’ve said before, I’m ok with and would be happy with an endgame of Jon and Dany as king and queen of the 7K, but I think it’s equally likely that after saving the world and instituting a new system of government they might flee to find a semblance of the life they’ve always dreamed of, together :)

Sansa got a crown and you guys have been bitter ever since. Sansa's decisions didn't make sense? She's the only ruler who cared about food for her people. She was a better queen than Jon about the North's independence. They wanted her instead of Jon. Stay bitter.

Keep reading

HOTD finale leaks, Daenerys and TPtwP, retcon?

Okay. So this is something that is just irritating as hell right now. Currently some Jon fans (and I am one myself too--to some extent-- so this is not coming from a Jon hater) are really unhappy that the leaks show that Daemon already saw centuries ago that Dany will be the The Prince that was Promised. They are alleging that this is somehow a retcon of the original. To them, here is my question: Original what? Show or Book?

In the show, there is no clear Prince that was Promised. The last time the Prophecy is mentioned is in 7x02 when it is clarified that it is nuetral with respect to gender. It never shows up in season 8. Nor do the events of season 8 give us any further clue on the prophecy. Every plan made by Jon and Dany failed to stop the Night King in 8x03. By the end of the episode both Jon and Dany are in hopeless situations. Only the surprise attack by Arya (of all people) defeated the Night King after he had, by all rights, won. Arya, of course, if we follow the show's narrative was prepared by the Lord of Light (and knew nothing about any of this) and had nothing to do with Jon and Dany. Not even the show claimed that Arya was the Prince that was promised.

In the books, there is no case for claiming that this is a retcon in any way. In fact, by the end of Book 5 (the last one so far released), Dany is the most obvious candidate for the position. We have the red priests proclaiming it (btw they are also proclaiming it in the show, recall Kinvara). Maester Aemon, who seems to have spent his whole life looking for the fulfilment of the prophecy and is an expert on it also identifies Dany. The signs are all there ('dragons from stone' etc.). Born amidst 'salt and smoke' (Dragonstone), 'bleeding star' (red comet) and so on.

So what gives?

I should also point something out that is essentially stated again and again as if it were established canon:

That Jon IS THE SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, becasue he is THE SON OF ICE (Stark) AND FIRE (Targaryen). It seems that the ones who make this argument think that repeating it often enough and loudly, along with derisive dismissals of those who do not agree with them is sufficient to make it a canonical fact. However, none of this changes the fact that THIS IS AN UNCONFIRMED FAN THEORY.

I will be the last to deny that there is evidence poiting towards Jon as well. However, as of ADwD, Jon and Dany are the only plausible characters who can be TPtwP. To make either fit, some parts of the prophecy need to be interpreted metaphorically (with there being canonical support for such metaphorical interpretations, no less) while the others fit literally (for example, 'sword' has to be given a metaphorical interpretation for Dany, while she fulfils the part about awakening dragons from stone literally). If one of them is the one, it can hardly be called retcon.

considering how many people from the north / sworn to starks / related to them betrayed starks in the past and how many people from the south saved them, it's really ironic how they could not trust daenerys "because she's not one of them"

boltons were ones of you. you remember what they did to your brother, his wife and their unborn child? what boltons from the north did to your mother and your people? what boltons did to sansa? theon was one of you. he literally was raised with you and how that ended for robb, rickon and bran? how it ended for ser rodrik? shall we speak of how people of winterfell suffered because of theon and boltons? master luwin's name means something to you? what your dear aunt lysa, related to you by blood, did to you, sansa? should i remind you that it was karstarks who abandoned robb? that it was people from the north who later refused to help starks take winterfell back?

or shall we speak how it was ser davos from the south that helped them to gather allies? perhaps name "the hound" reminds you of someone, someone idk who protected both sansa and arya? jaqen was not from the north and yet he helped you, arya, beric dondarrion and his brotherhood did as well. oh and what about gendry and hot pie? since when they were from the north? now wildings are okay bc they fought for you? but they are from behind the wall, how can you trust someone who's not one of you? brienne of tarth helped you. littlefinger and knights of the vale saved you. tyrion protected you. margaery and lady olenna helped you. neither from the north

but it's daenerys when you draw the line because she's not from the north, she's not stark? damn, she should have let you all die and keep her people and dragons in essos

"Any man who must say I am the king is no true king." "I was born to rule the seven kingdoms. I will take what is mine." "I give you a choice, join me or die." "I will fight for the North when you bend the knee." Your girl has a big fall coming and I'm here living for it.

And here you are again!

Does context mean nothing to you people? You’re so used to reading and watching everything but what is right infront of you, you’ve actually convinced yourself she’s the big bad villian. !Newsflash! They all fall if she’s falls. Sansa, Jon, the entire North gone without her. I don’t know how long we have to beat this dead horse till you get it. She earned their loyalty she didn’t conquer them and she’s not going to conquer them. I guess this is news to no one but you and those who think like you and will hate her no matter what she does but what else is new in the world of antis. Do you guys like “hate” watch the show? You must because my girl is a big damn hero.

I want to talk about the specific Dany’s theme that plays while Viserys I reveals to Rhaenyra about Aegon’s dream. For those who might be wondering which exactly of Dany’s themes it is, it’s “Breaker of Chains”. Here are the two videos for comparison. The “Breaker of Chains” theme starts playing at the exact moment Viserys starts to talk about Aegon’s dream (from 2:29 to 3:56). Listen to the Breaker of Chains theme from 1:40 to 3:00:

As you can see, it’s pretty much the same theme. Dany’s theme even intensifies in the exact moment that Viserys says that a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne if the world is to survive, a king or queen (notice how the show makes sure to not forget to mention that it can be a queen) strong enough to unite the realm, and that Aegon called his dream “the song of ice and fire”.

So, to sum up what we’ve learned:

Aegon called his dream “the song of ice and fire” and “the song of ice and fire” is exactly the name of the prophecy Dany learns about in the House of the Undying (and Dany is the only character to ever hear about the song of ice and fire), and of course, “A Song of Ice and Fire” is the title of the books;

The theme that plays during the scene that Viserys tells this secret to Rhaenyra is called “The Prince That Was Promised”, once again confirming the idea that Aegon’s dream, which he called “the song of ice and fire”, is about the prophecy we’ve been hearing about in the books, the Prince That Was Promised/Azor Ahai prophecy (yes, they ARE the same);

The part of “The Prince that was promised” theme that plays during the moment in which Viserys talks about the song of ice and fire and the prince that was promised is DANY’S THEME, “Breaker of Chains”;

GRRM is way more involved in House of the Dragon than he ever was in Game of Thrones, and he already said in interview that he was the one who told the showrunners about Aegon’s dream. So all of this came from GRRM, meaning it’s no coincidence that Dany’s theme is there at that exact moment.

To me, this CONFIRMS, without a shadow of doubt, that DANY is the princess that was promised/Azor Ahai, and that HERS is the song of ice and fire (and it also confirms that the Game of Thrones ending is bullshit, and Dany is actually destined to save the world).

Same anon who sent you the Jaime kills Dany Reddit theory. Another thing that I loathe is when Dany haters try and disguise their hate by stating that Dany dying or turning into the Mad Queen is just good story telling. “Oh, I know I talk negatively about Dany all the time, but I don’t hate her. I love that GRRM is subtly subverting tropes with his writing. He’s so clever!” It’s so transparent. I would actually respect these people more if they just honestly stated that they blindly hate her.

And it’s actually quite funny because Dany literally embodies several traits female characters have been villianized and put through hell for… Being infertile, sexually liberated and ambitious. Then there are just so many fairytales about “Evil Queens” in which the one who wins is some patriarchy approved good girl who sings a lot of songs and sits around waiting for a handsome prince to marry. Don’t even get me started on how the most cliche and basic western stories portrays dragons as evil monsters some lame knight kills and saves the princess.

Wanting her to die or to conform to the fallen woman trope is literally the most basic cliche to ever cliche. There’s no subversion or brilliance in coming up with those theories, it just shows that the story managed to tap into the most basic parts of the person’s soul, the subversion makes them uncomfortable and they desperately want to cling to their childish fantasies of “dark and evil queens” and “monstrous dragons”.

DANY IS THE SUBVERSION. She’s the princess who rides the dragon, there’s a knight but he’s a friend zoned loser in a world where Knights aren’t considered heroes. There are no wise Kings ruling wisely, just a bunch of dudes killing each other and putting a country through war for their personal family drama and here we have a queen who is a champion for the common people. She thinks she’s cursed with infertility but it doesn’t dictate her story, in fact, she’s the mother of dragons & Mhysa to her people. As for the sex, it’s interesting that Jon was given the ‘mixing honor and lack of sex’ narrative usually reserved for female characters.

She’s going on adventures, traveling the world, sailing the sea, conquering, ruling, sleeping around with attractive people, taming dragons… like only heroes do, she’s not the heroine holding the fort back home and staying sexually pure. Even her meeting with Jon was such a subversion, he came to her almost as a damsel in distress, was repeatedly asked to submit but stays defiant and acted as a morality filter urging her to do the right thing and save the world. She even comes to rescue him from monsters and he makes a move on her after declaring that she’s not like everyone else. That’s a bad boy/good girl in reversed right there.

So personally to me, those theories are not only transparent but also very funny.