Elisabeth Das Musical - Tumblr Posts - Page 3
The relationship between Elisabeth and Der Tod is textbook “enemies AND lovers.” They crave and hunger for each other so but they also hurt each other just as much. You want them to end up together because they truly understand each other, Elisabeth even comes to him to celebrate her triumph in Wenn Ich Tanzen Will and he’s happy for her. But you’re also meant to cheer for Elisabeth when she chases Der Tod away because he’s literally her depression personified.
They YEARN for each other but on their own terms. And there’s so much desperation, so much hunger. It’s almost primal and instinctual. They tear away each other’s facades and rip off each other’s defense. Elisabeth is not an elegant and beautiful Empress but an egotistical and selfish (very depressed) woman to him. He’s not an omniscient and detached deity but a jealous and possessive (almost animalistic) man to her. And they both can’t help but be attracted to each other.
Their interactions are rarely tender, they bite, they claw. What do you expect from a love affair with literal DEATH?? It’s a story you can root for because they complement each other’s toxicity but don’t necessarily want it for yourself cuz … depression sucks 🫠
In fact, reducing their relationship to an all-good all-romantic love story in a way, glorifies depression and suicidal tendencies. Because that way, Der Tod is just another suitor, portrayed as far superior to the human Franz-Joseph, of course Elisabeth SHOULD want to be with him, simple as that. The way Maya and Mate play it truly taps into the nuances of Elisabeth and Der Tod’s love affair. It’s cathartic, not happy.
Maya Hakvoort and Máté Kamarás in Elisabeth
Elisabeth das Musical (but Der Tod also spends the better part of the musical convincing Elisabeth to kill herself, the developments are not mutually exclusive 😂)
super late but here’s a very specific ship dynamic i’ve been obssessed with recently
Uwe Kroger: 🧝🏻♂️💅🏻💃🏻👑🦚
Mate Kamaras: 😾🔥💍🌪🎇
Mark Seibert: 🧍🏼♂️🧍🏼♂️🧍🏼♂️
Can you talk a bit about different actors for Der Tod in Elisabeth? Especially your thougts on Uwe Kröger and Mark Seibert and maybe some less known favourites of yours. I always enjoy your takes!
Sure, I can talk about some of them. It’s been a while since I really watched Elisabeth, and I tend to focus on her character more, but here are some memorable actors.
Uwe Kroger - Probably my absolute favorite portrayal, especially in the original Vienna production, which really highlighted how dark and raw the show is at its core. He was icy-cold, androgynous, aloof, very which how I would envision a personified version of a force of nature that’s existed for millions of years - he’s seen it all, is above it all, and then Elisabeth comes into his life and he shows just the barest bits of emotion (a totally new thing for him too). Pretty much has the best Elisabeth opinions.
Mate Kamaras - Pretty much the exact opposite of Uwe Kroger. Energetic, sexual, emotional, but with a deeply manipulative streak that elevates him from becoming too human of a Death. One of my other favorites, just for how he took an interpretation that should have made me hate his Death (see Mark Seibert’s entry below), and made it so fascinating to watch.
Martin Pasching - There are only audios of his Death, as far as I know, but what audios! I knew his Rudolf, who was nervous to the point of being neurotic, who clung to Death like he was his life-raft, was great, but the way he sang as Death, how he just played with notes - it was lovely to listen to. He made me entranced by songs I normally skipped.
Oliver Arno - Props for elevating staging and interpretations that made me want to kick something (oh Stage Entertainment, I hate your staging so much). Very much that “force of nature” interpretation who’s vaguely puzzled by all these weird feelings he’s having. Looks a bit like a shark in some scenes.
Mark Seibert - I saw this man over the course of three years and with half a dozen different actresses, and he never changed a damn thing. Vanilla as hell, played Death as a mere romantic love interest, albeit with the occasional evil cackling. If Uwe Kroger had the best opinions, he had the worst (Sisi loved Death because he provided a masculine, sexual energy for her? GET OUT). There was nothing terrifying or inhuman about him, save for the fact that he and Stage Entertainment almost singlehandedly made me give up on a show that I adored.
Kim Junsu - I have absolutely no opinion on this man, other than my memories of how every bootleg of him focuses exclusively on his character when he was onstage, even if it was another character doing all the singing and acting. As the sister of a kpop stan, I understand, there are thousands if not millions of videos that will do just that, film solely one member. As a fan of musical theatre who just wants to watch a bootleg, I am ANNOYED.
Takarazuka’s Elisabeth is like if somebody took 1984 and made it all about how Winston and Julia fell in love like it was all a fairytale.
Takarazuka’s theme song for Rose of Versailles is so cheap and cheesy, it overshadows the subtle poetics of Ikeda Riyoko’s words. (Also the ending of RoV’s anime slaps harder than any song the Revue can write)
The only good Takarazuka show I’ve seen so far is El Halcon because Aoike Yasuko is such a good action writer that even when her material is heavily watered down and compressed, it’s still, at the very least, fun to watch. Heard Haikara-san ga Tooru is good too but haven’t tried.
ive gotten into takarazuka when i found out they did elisabeth! do you have a fav takarazuka tod perhaps? i think ayaki nao was a quite seductive tod (though takarazuka ofc have their own interpretation of tod!)
I’m going to be brutally honest here - I do not care for the Takarazuka productions of Elisabeth. Part of it is getting to know some of the fan culture surrounding the Takarazuka productions in general, and their fetishistic nature towards the actors, but most of it is that I just do not vibe with the direction it takes. I don’t like how it romanticizes the story, I don’t like how Elisabeth’s role is reduced, I don’t like how spineless they make her. I absolutely know that this is how Takarazuka does this and that many fans enjoy it, and that’s fine! There’s room for lots of interpretations of the story, and I am fine with this one’s existence (plus it releases lots of proshots and has gorgeous costumes). But it is really not my thing.
All of which is a really long way of saying that I do not have a favorite Takarazuka Tod, because I do not watch it enough to have one, and when I do, I focus almost entirely on Elisabeth. Because if they are going to reduce Elisabeth to a secondary role in her own musical, then I, spiteful contrarian that I am, will focus on her and her alone, just to show them. So there.
(Though I guess I did like Asumi Rio as Tod, but I think that’s less a sign of her quality and more because I watch the 2014 cast the most, because I find Ranno Hanna to be a cutie patoot.)
Валерьянка=Valerian=a kind of sedative that according to Wikipedia seems to have no clinical significance but I’m not a pharmacist or a doctor I don’t know
Kittyboy Rudolf is free serotonin 💖
Happy Lunar New Year!!!!!
Here's Der Tod in áo tấc (a Vietnamese traditional costume) and catboy(catman?) Rudolf because it's the year of the cat instead of rabbit in Vietnam
I agree with everything you said and I demand more.
One additional thought. The Takarazuka Revue didn’t choose to cast all female, they chose to adapt this musical into their all-female cast company. But to me the problem isn’t in the cast, it’s in the way the writers REWROTE AND DESTROYED ONE OF THE BEST MUSICALS OF ALL TIME. No internal consistency, characters are bland, Death is the protagonist now btw, and worst of all, they made the show KITSCHY.
2005 Vienne is the most intense and spectacular imo
rating elisabeth productions i’ve seen because why not!
1992 in Wien: fae king is concerned how into it random girl in the woods is after repeatedly telling him her name. blue! it’s so blue and the little pause at her wedding is the greatest bit. pia’s dress!!!! oh goodness, she radiates sisi for me, both story wise and history wise. she brings such respect to a woman i love and hopefully is resting in peace. also uwe and pia are literally bffs it’s beautiful i have never seen a gay man kiss a woman with as much love and respect as i do when these two play death and sisi. like even in concerts he *still* does the final act bridal carry. only downside is i need more physicality!
2002 in Essen: pia’s last performance of sisi and i just-it’s bittersweet but the way she brings everything to the role. the literal screams and cheers of the audience with her final note in ich gehör nur mir gives me chills every single time. i wish they kept in the blocking with her and rudolf when he comes to her in the garden (the poor boy, or rather, young man at this point buries his face into her stomach and i literally cannot-) and the heartbreak of her saying “i never beg. i won’t even do it for you.” like it hurts so bad but so good. she also does a cartwheel. barefoot. petticoats and all! (also pia did a revival in i think…2018? in concert. she’s 60 something and she can still hit the g5 at the end of ich gehör nur mir. i literally teared up when i saw the clip. she will always embody sisi for me. forever.
2005 in Wien: two feral idiots have an argument for two hours.literally the greatest of all time, i will be taking no other thoughts. was the first production i watched and i fell head over heels in love. went to school the next day, screaming about it to my friends (who didn’t care) and the promptly went to scream about it my history teacher (who did care). mate and maya are the most psychological and historical for me. the interwoven bliss of the tumbling, complicated relationship between death and sisi directly contrasted with the fall of the haspburg empire, the choice between yourself or what you have to do in this life, everything about it. serkan kaya is literally the greatest lucheni and i want to simultaneously wring his neck for killing sisi but also lowkey adopt him for his freaking runs and literally hitting the same note of a freaking trumpet. the physicality between mate and maya makes me melt, because it’s rough and feral and then soft and longing. the almost nose brush! the complete amusement from death followed by confusion and then fascination and then all of that is literally mirrored in the slowed down moment at her wedding when they circle each other cate please i’m going to combust-
takarazuka: it’s a no for me. japan has beautiful sets and costumes, but the choice to make the entire cast female was terrible. i’m watching bad performances of women pretending to be men and singing parts way too low for their ranges. also death is just…weird? it’s unsettling. also the show doesn’t sound good in japanese compared to other languages like german, dutch, and korean.
2012: kill it with fire. no, don’t even do that. wait until it’s coming off of a boat and then stab it repeatedly with a file. this is the worst adaptation my eyes have ever had the misfortune to see. the soundtrack itself isn’t terrible, and if anything mark siebert is probably my favorite when it comes to his version of die schatten werden länger [akt 2]. but the production set is legit just….it’s nothing. there’s nothing but a ramp. it’s so ugly. and GOD, death isn’t…he’s not some macho goth man? and then having actresses who play sisi entirely as timid, white, 20 somethings completely takes me out of the character and the story. there’s no strength. there’s no passion. i’m just watching pretty young women who have the worst, high school production old age makeup i have ever seen. i hate it so much. not a production but: there were some choices made to have elisabeth be played by two different actresses and that legitimately made me so upset, i had to go and do something else. it completely strips away sisi as a person and a character and i despise this take.
2020: maya is too old to play sis but did i cry when she came out in THE dress? yes. everything else is awful. that fucking SWING I’M GONNA MURDER SOMEONE- please get rid of mark as death i’m so tired-
FACTS. You're so right about 2005. it's the perfect mix between historical and psychological. i love mate and maya so MUCH. *whispers* i also have fanfiction and i am also accepting prompts....
1992 with Uwe and Pia is fantastical and mesmerizing, the overall tone is like a story where Lucheni is the writer, flipping through each pages. 2005 with Maya and Máté is intense, it’s a constant struggle for power over the narrative and other characters, Elisabeth, Death, Lucheni. They seem to be truly living and occasionally intercepting each other’s stories. So full of drama. It’s the most cathartic for me. And Maya might not be THE Elisabeth like Pia, but her passion and fire is unmatched, like how Máté invented a new Death, she invented a new Elisabeth. I even adore the roughness in her voice.
Also drop the fanfic link, friend 👀
Anybody interested in a 1-hour-long video essay dissecting the consequences of Rondo of Love and Death in Elisabeth das Musical?
AS PROMISED!! My video on Elisabeth and Rondo of Love and Death has dropped. This took forever lmaooo
@adridoesstuff @thatnerdashley @fitzrove
Oh man I can’t wait to talk about Kitsch in the next Elisabeth video 🤣
Kitsch and it's importance in the design of Elisabeth
Why does the staging and approach in the recent German-language productions fail where the original and 1st revival succeeded? It all has to do with a concept I lovingly like to call "self-aware kitschiness" (and which I would like to explore further in my professional work later on).
But first of all: what can be understood under the word kitsch? When we think of kitsch, we immediately see a lot of color, ornamentation, "outdated" styles, mild historical influence and the subtext of a distaste and an avoidance for the object we descripe as "kitsch". It's eclectic, but not in a good way in the subtext. But, when we take on kitsch as a designer, we can find out that it has amazing story telling potential and value if used well.
The original was opulent and outlandish, but it was aware of the irony the settings provide. The set is composed of purposefully used kitschy stylistic elements, be it in the historic or modern direction. On that stage, in the span of over 2 hours, we see unnaturally colorful neon lights meet historic settings and items and costumes of historical styles are covered in lamé and sequins. The show revels in it's outside opulence while showing the mirror on our present day outlook on the subject at hand. After all, when an average person is told to visualize something from the time of Elisabeth's life, they immediately think of the luxury, the shimmering gilding of the Hofburg and Schonbrunn, the Winterhalter portrait and the Romy Schneider movies. All, arguably, very sugar-coated and harmlessly romanticized.
But, as we all know, Elisabeth das musical is in the first place and deep down NOT a romance. Sure, the relationship of Elisabeth with Der Tod could be from some angles and interpretations be viewed as love, but this is first and foremost the story of a woman too complex for her antiquated world fighting her internal struggles and trying to find her place in a society that doesn't understand her.
The central theme of the show's context is personal freedom, but the secondary theme is the aforementioned kitsch, which has hidden away all the difficulties, all the hardships, wrongs and bad decisions in favor of something palatable for the general public in order to sell well. But, by kitsch being such an intergal part in the design, we as an audience can see through the artifice, see just how it works and it's up to us to do nothing and accept it, laugh at it or condemn it.
The show in it's original form wasn't afraid to critique itself and it's characters while nodding along with the viewer. In the end, it is Lucheni who tells this story and in his words, he spares no one, even though there are hints of him purposefully warping the story in his favor. This is the trial to pardon his soul after all. Yet, as soon as we see Lucheni realize there is no reason to not tell the harsh truth, since there is no reason to excuse his crime, the kitsch and opulence disappear in tune of the reprise of the song of the same name. We only see harsh dark sets on rather realistic backdrops, illuminated by starkly white lights. It's cold, but distinctly real. From that point on, it's as if we awake into an entirely new world, which has replaced the world as we knew it so far, much like what the characters on stage might have experienced after Rodolf's death and with the decline of the monarchy. It's only a natural progression the story and it's characters make.
That's why when the show started to lean into "historically more realistic" visuals (starting with the 2001 Essen production, which was the first to use the Yan Tax costume designs and not the ones by Reinhard Heinrich + started using more concrete, less artistically stylized sets), it started to lose it's depth. Don't get me wrong, the Essen production did look good, but it didn't have quite as much contextual punch to it. The visuals were appealing, but they missed that kitschy edge, that made the original staging such a storytelling tour-de-force on a visual level alone. Now, from the outside, the show looked more like a stage adaptation of the Romy Schneider movies. Nice to look at, but not offering as much food for thought as the original.
And then came the era of the productions scaling down on their sets, with the 2nd revival at first seemingly mostly doing the remaining 1st revival sets (since there are promo pictures of them in the new costumes and the old sets), but they phased them out in favor of this harsh backdrop, LCD screens and a turntable. All the remaining set pieces are minimally detailed, cold and unfeeling, which seems to me like a major visual clash with them keeping on using the romaticised historical Yan Tax costumes (except for Der Tod, but I think I already talked enough about that). And at that, it feels empty and flat. Both figuratively and visually.
TLDR: For a production of Elisabeth to work design wise, you need for it to be kitschy in a self-aware way, otherwise it won't work as well.
have you watched toho elisabeth?
I have not watched the Toho version in full for several reasons.
1. Elisabeth in Japanese to me doesn’t sound as good as Elisabeth in German. Due to the differences in diction, I find the original German much more expressive and intense. Japanese can be expressive and intense too but it doesn’t do so in the context of Elisabeth.
2. Toho, as I have read, is like a compromise between the Takarazuka version and the Viennese version. And that, to me, does not work. As I have said, the Viennese version is laid out so intricately, the smallest detail can throw the whole show out the window. They, of course, keep Rondo of Love and Death because the Japanese audience has spent almost 20 years prior to Toho associating Elisabeth with Rondo. Even when the Viennese Revival cast toured Japan around 2006-2007, they had to add Rondo (which was a stupid request).
Anyway, due to those reasons, I haven’t watched Toho. I might later but for now, if I want to watch a masterpiece I would watch Pre-2012 Viennese version, and if I want to hate-watch, I have a dozen Takarazuka versions to choose from.
Does anybody have the transcript of the original German lyrics of the ORIGINAL Schwarzer Prinz? The one in 1992? 🥹 Cuz I can’t seem to find it anywhere. The only one I found is the one used in the Viennese Revival which is already changed …
Ok so after mucking around with DeepL and replaying the scene a hundred times. Through a process I call trial, error, and rephrasing the translation to match the structure of the sentence then choosing from the synonyms to find the closest sounding words to Pia Douwes’ singing. I got what COULD POTENTIALLY be the original German lyrics of the 1992 version of Schwarzer Prinz (or as it was known then, Wie Du reprise). I don’t speak German so if anyone can correct any mistakes they found, that would be much appreciated.
Mama, wenn ich älter werde, such mir keinen Mann Alles, was mich glücklich macht, kann ich allein Träumen und Gedichte schreiben oder reiten mit dem Wind. Ich möchte nie gebunden sein
Does anybody have the transcript of the original German lyrics of the ORIGINAL Schwarzer Prinz? The one in 1992? 🥹 Cuz I can’t seem to find it anywhere. The only one I found is the one used in the Viennese Revival which is already changed …
And to beat a dead horse, one of the points that I stressed in my video essay is that: the existence of a “happy ever after” for Elisabeth and Death RIDICULES Elisabeth’s refusal to succumb to her suicidal thoughts.
If there exist a happy ending, then logically, Elisabeth should have no fear in accepting Death’s invitation (to kill herself). And when she does, she is framed as foolish and stubborn. Which is NOT a good look.
I can’t say original Viennese production is avidly anti-suicide, but you are meant to root for Elisabeth when she does refuse Death. It’s portrayed as triumphant moments. Because Elisabeth and the audience share an unspoken understanding that there is no “after.” Death is NOT a solution to problems, just an end.
By making Death’s “happy ever after” a SOLUTION to Elisabeth’s life problems, it is sending an extremely problematic message, one that shamelessly glamorizes suicide.
Society has moved past the need for "together in the afterlife<33" endings to Elisabeth. Like, if that's your takeaway, why would you produce the show oabfösbgödlf
It's not a story about love, it's a twisted mockery of a love story. Lucheni's narration - because it was always supposed to be that and only that!!!! He is not an objective source of information and that is 900% the point!! - uses the conventions of a love story to make a point. Seeing what happens should horrify the audience, and if it doesnt horrify the audience, the audience should think about it a bit and be horrified upon realising that they've been made to root for something horrible (a relationship that kills and destroys) and possibly even find it sweet or comforting. Goes for Elisatod and Todolf both. Lucheni makes a big old romance or seduction narrative - something we're societally wired to enjoy and root for - stand for a lifelong fascination with death. He's the OG romanticiser. But, at the end, it doesn't work if the audience isn't shown the tangible effects and end results of that narrative, which to me are
Elisabeth's cruelty, bitterness and brokenness throughout act 2 and how she TANGIBLY harms other people in the course of her pursuit of freedom (this could also start in act 1 already, with Milch). In this we can root for her, but the audience should never forget the price paid. It's not that she's evil - far from it - we should almost see her selfishness as the only coping mechanism she has in her situation and be drawn to deeply understand and care for her and hope against hope that she'll reach happiness somehow. Which makes it even more tragic that it does still harm others, and EVEN MORE tragic, awful and uncomfortable that happiness slips from her grasp and she's literally joyful that she's DYING
Elisabeth's death as a "ruined" ending to the show. There's a kiss and the music swells triumphantly, still in keeping with Lucheni's pretense that this is a grand love story, but the audience should be left feeling empty and horrified after it ends. I don't care if it's bad for marketing ajfkdkkf. Tod should PUT HER ON THE FLOOR or otherwise show that after the charade is over, she's dead and her imaginary boyfriend can't save her or accompany her because he's an empty husk that doesn't exist unless she's there to imagine him - or, if Tod is a more real figure, that he doesn't care, or can't care. He cares during her life because she pertains to his fate-assigned task, but afterwards, there's literally no way for him to and no reason to. She's gone to a place he can never know about or follow her to. Or he's just done. I think it's a very grave mistake when the show is directed to have a genuinely triumphant-seeming ending. Death is not REALLY happiness, death is not really freedom, even though Lucheni spends the entire show gaslighting us to think that. If Elisabeth has a happy ending, it becomes a show that legit encourages suicide in a way that no amount of todolf flirting or Mayerling kissing can. (I see people wonder about whether todolf romanticises suicide, but in staged productions, it literally never does. It can't, because Tod never is outright tender with Rudolf, or is implied to stay with Rudolf after Mayerling. At least in European prods - idk if this happens in some of the Asian prods, I don't watch them because I don't like what I've seen of the way zuka, toho or koreabeth are directed ajdkkdkf. I can't believe homophobia is protecting todolf from the romanticisation treatment but I think it is 💀).
Overall.......... like, vbw please, less KKOG and more alle fragen sind gestellt. If you want a sparkly elegant princess love story with lots of drama, banger music and don't mind if there's no actual criticism or metacommentary, just go watch Anastasia 💀 (i mean that one does also have historical criticism, but it's just COMMUNISM BAD, aristocracy GOOD lol. Ajdkkdfb if Elisabeth was written by Lucheni, Anastasia was written by dowager empress Maria Feodorovna lmao)
I am thinking once again about Elisabeth das Musical and Death.
Recently Overly Sarcastic Productions' Red presented a video on the fictional depiction of Death. And I thought about my favorite assassin faery king/meow meow feral wet cat Der Tod. During my video essay, I only mentioned a few interpretations of Death without digging into it. But I realized that the interpretation where Der Tod is not an independent character - but as a personification of a troubled psyche perhaps - doesn't have to be confined to the experience of an individual.
In the musical, a lot of deaths are shown or alluded to. But what is curious about the total death toll in is that Der Tod only appears to a handful of characters.
If Der Tod is an independent psychopomp character, wouldn't it make consistent logical sense if he comes to deliver every single soul passed away? The Takarazuka Revue production definitely leans more heavily into this interpretation. Which makes him appear like a deity associated with Death but not the event of death itself.
The pre-2012 Der Tod is more nuanced combining characteristics of death itself and representation of psychological darkness to create ambiguity. But what if these 2 things overlap and he represents both?
Here's the thing!
Der Tod is only relevant in the lives and deaths of 3 characters: Elisabeth, Rudolph, and Lucheni. Old Sophie's death is a fade-to-black. Baby Sophie's death, Der Tod appears in front of - NOT SOPHIE - but ELISABETH. And this is no coincidence! These are 3 characters who contemplate Death the most. Not just in the sense that they are su*c*dal but they ponder much about lives and subsequently the concept of death.
So that brings me to the question: what does it all mean?
Death is, after all, the only universal experience every human must face. And we as humans don't just stop at knowing, but we actively think about what death means, and tell stories about the experience of living and dying. The fact that Der Tod is intimate with multiple characters can represent the collective contemplation of Death.
And his relationship with them begs the question:
Is he more powerful, the more we think of him?
okay i made it properly (see my previous post here)
Oh my god PREACH
Mate Tod is giving so much each and every day
He can roar AND purr he makes my heart literally tremor whenever he sings
He really GETS the complexity of the character he's an idea and he comprises a lot of ideals
Mate Tod lives rent free in my head along with the rest of the Vienna Revival cast
The thing about máté tod is that he's insane he's a rockstar he's a sl*t and a literal beast,,,, but also a 19th century dandy???? Like you can see that he's made out of heinrich heine poetry juice deep down. I think the contrast makes his portrayal SO good, like when he sings softly he can croon and be soooo beguiling and pleasant (like in Elisabeth, sei nicht verzweifelt and in Mama). Like yeah actually I would trust this man with my lif- wait
Potato Tod 😭
i did this for a uh certain group of friends but i think it's brilliant